That spot already cleared, the blind spot is in your position

HEADER FOR Expressions

(Click picture to go back to Table of Contents)

Welcome

Enjoy... But remember
"Don't give in to winning the argument
and losing one of your eternal crowns..."

God bless you...

That spot already cleared, the blind spot is in your position

Forum: Theological Expressions
Re:

House Church (again!) (Christopher Yip)
Re:

Clarifications (RTC)
Re:

The NT Model is not Normative, Not Meant to be. (Christopher Yip)
Re:

Not normative? On what basis? (RTC)
Re:

And Normative on What Basis? (Christopher Yip)
Re:

On basis that such was NT practices everywhere in first 300 years (RTC)
Re:

Is that therefore biblical? (Christopher Yip)
Re:

Yes it is (RTC)
Re:

Holds no water (passerby)
Re:

You use wrong cup (RTC)
Re:

pick up the same dictionary and please enlighten us what it says about Church(n/t)
Re:

Church is building for Christian worship (RTC)
Re:

Hee...Hee...Can't you even see the obvious contradictions to your arguments???(n/t)
Re:

Hi Anon,
Re:

biblical?
Re:

Let's see if you pass the biblical test (RTC)
Re:

Easton Bible Dictionary says...
Re:

Thayer's Greek Definition of Ekklesia (Christopher Yip)
Re:

Still got more (RTC)
Re:

Not Much Point in going further ... (Christopher Yip)
Re:

The same point (RTC)
Re:

OK, One Last Shot (Christopher Yip)
Re:

Missed by a long shot? (RTC)
Re:

Perhaps it'sYou? Food for thought. (Christopher Yip)
Re:

More food on the table (RTC)
Re:

Your Food is Giving Me Indigestion :-)) (Christopher Yip)
Re:

That's because you are not chewing! (RTC)
Re:

Nope. It's Because Your Food Is Indigestible - Too Much Imagination. Will Stick With The Bible. (Christopher Yip)
Re:

If you really stick to Bible, you won't get the IC today! (RTC)
Re:

We stuck with the Bible and we got BOTH the IC and HC! (Christopher Yip)
Re:

Only by twisting and turning, not by sound exegesis! (RTC)
Re:

Here's Yet Another One of Your Blind Spots! (Christopher Yip)
Date: 2001, Jun 17
From: RTC

YOU: What you have failed is to fail to see that the IC cannot be supported by Scripture. It is run like an institution and thus suffers from institutional and organisational problems. Such problems cannot be solved by appealing to Scripture because they do not arise out of being Scriptural, they are then sought to be solved largely through human management solutions. ME: OK, let's see an example ... ++Let’s just take the big one, church building. Is that found anywhere in the pages of the NT? What’s the theology behind church buildings? Can it be supported by Scripture? The answer is no, unless you appeal to the old covenant way of living. And because the church forget abandon the idea of the house church and moved into special church building so as to be big in their meetings, a whole new set of problems arise. Find new land, buy new land, raise more funds, service interest, lease runs out, buy land again, renovate again, face the problem of competing use of premises, and of course, it fosters the idea of “attending church” and “going to church.” The HC, following after the NT, never have such a problem by design. If a HC gets large, the people just have another HC in another believer’s house. If they do need to come together for something bigger once in a while, they can always rent a place or a hall. The HC will never face the problem, or the headache, of having to raise funds, service loans, no place to meet etc. Best of all, it perfectly reflects the idea of the church being a household of God. ME: So, such a biblical solution cannot also be implemented because the "IC" "fears that kind of rowdiness" etc. See? Everything about the HC is sort of like normal problems and biblical solutions are perfect fit but the SAME KIND OF PROBLEM (like rowdiness in this case) becomes an INSTITUTIONALLY and ORGANISATIONALLY-related problem and people are "afraid" etc to solve it and somehow the biblical admonition to be orderly CANNOT be used by these "ICs". ++Here’s then is your blindspot. You fail to see that by design, an IC service is not geared for active and mutual participation, not the kind that Paul talks about anyway. Paul’s solution is therefore of little use to those in the IC mentality because such a situation is pre-empted from happening in the first place! See the blind spot? Your bad experience has already coloured your view of what goes on in the churches. Every problem, HOWEVER SIMILAR TO THE HC, is a cause of the institution. I believe we call such reasoning special pleading, RTC. ++Did I say every problem is a cause of institution? No interacting with your own strawman please. I’m not saying that the problems faced in the HC will not arise in the IC, but I am saying that the HC do not suffer the problems particularly related to the IC. Get that? Put aside those bias and view the churches FROM THEIR OWN POINT OF VIEW. Abuses and malpractices by some are NOT representative of our ecclesiology - if you insist, then can we also point to aberrant house churches as examples of your glorious biblical NT model? Surely not, RTC. ++Again you missed the point. Churches must be viewed from God’s point of view, and you get that view from the NT. Every church must be seen in the light of the Scriptures to see how near or far they are from God’s intended purpose for the church. And BTW, what’s YOUR point of view about having church buildings, salaried pastors, clergy-laity distinction, spectator-meetings, order of service, hierarchy in the church etc and how do you back such views with Scripture?