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Disagree Read What Christodoulos Says to John Paul II 

Forum: Theological Expressions
Re: None Reconciliation, Towards Unity: JOINT STATEMENT BY POPE, ORTHODOX PRELATE (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re: More PAPAL APOLOGY TO GREEK ORTHODOX (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re: More "Enemy" Churches Praying Together: Pope and Orthodox Archbishop Christodoulos of Athens (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Date: 2001, May 28
From: Christopher Yip CKHY

Ecclesia - Press

 

 

Remarks by Christopher Yip: The Eastern (or Greek) Orthodox Church understands too that any ecumenical unity must be build on fidelity to apostolic doctrines or else everything is simply a farce. We are not opposed to ecumenicity, just ecumenicity on heretical Rome's terms. For a Eastern Orthodox summary of the ecumenical movement, see

http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/schwartz.html

Excerpt: The Orthodox communion has special difficulties which the ecumenical movement, since it regards itself as the church which has never separated itself from the true faith and which has preserved the unbroken tradition. Nevertheless it perceives a divided Christendom as a bleeding wound on Christ's body which must be healed. Thus it has been important for the Orthodox communion to be active in the WCC and to contribute to the various documents gathered by the CFO on the road towards unity.

In this process some difficult questions remain to be addressed to the Orthodox. It is inconceivable for them to attempt intercommunion with heretics or schismatics, since one cannot have communion with those who are separated. Ιn pursuing the ecumenical road they must not only ask, "Can we commune others?" but also, "Can we refuse to commune others?"10. Only if the essence of faith or church order are in jeopardy can they refuse communion to others. Thus the important question is whether the separation they speak of is a separation from the one true tradition of the faith, or rather a separation in terms of different forms of the same tradition? Damaskinos Papandreou rightly said: "We live in a time of detoxification of the poisoned climate between the churches, which resulted from a century long process of fanaticism and thorough misunderstandings. We live in a time of free mutual encounters and true dialogue, which consists in everyone fully and wholly stating one's opinion, but also being ready to listen, and, if necessary to re-appropriate the inadequate elements of one's own exposition"11.

and for a Eastern Orthodox view of the Rock of Matthew 16, read

http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/boumis_peter.html

It is the same as the Protestant view.

Address by the Archbishop of Athens and all Greece,

CHRISTODOULOS

 

to Pope John Paul II of Rome

 

May 4, 2001

 

Your Holiness, Pope John Paul II of Rome, we bid You welcome!

 

 

We feel it a special honor that the Primate of the Church of Rome has expressed his desire to visit us as the Primate of the Orthodox Church in Greece while on a pilgrimage in our Homeland. We are especially moved by the fact that at the center of this pilgrimage stands the figure of the Apostle Paul, founder of our Church. His teaching to the Athenians laid the foundations for the spiritual identity of all Christian peoples, especially those of Europe. By this teaching was revealed to us the gift of the love of God and of our redemption in Christ. Truly, «while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we are now justified by His blood much more shall be saved by Him from wrath. For if while we were enemies were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved in His life». (Rom. 5, 8 - 10)

 

A Pope of Rome is visiting Athens for the first time in history. This event brings us joy. Our joy however is overshadowed by the fact of our division. Dogmatic and ecclesiological reasons, existing for a millennium, poison the atmosphere and negate the necessary conditions that would have allowed for your visit to be fruitful and to have borne results. The anathemas have been lifted, by the grace of God. The causes that brought them about however, have not.

 

In spite of the above, the Church of Greece wishes to address to You, through me, a word of love and truth, devoid of conventional courtesies, because only if we «speak the truth in love» (Eph. 4, 15) and admit our errors can we hope to arrive unto the unity of faith.

 

Your Holiness,

 

Understandably a large part of the pleroma of the Church of Greece opposes your presence here, though St. Mark of Ephesus, expressed our tradition when he said in Ferrara, while addressing Pope Eugene IV in 1438: «Our Head, Christ our God… does not tolerate that the bond of love be taken from us entirely». (PO, xvii, 198)

 

We wish to explain the reactions of this people because Your visit to the city of Athens functions as an unusual stimulus for «cleansing of ecclesial memory» from the traumatic experiences, that resulted from the unbrotherly behavior of the western Christian world towards the Orthodox peoples through the second millennium, since the Great Schism of 1054.

 

These reactions express not only explicit censure of the unacceptable acts of violence perpetrated against concerned Orthodox peoples, but also the demand of Orthodox conscience for a formal condemnation of injustices committed against them by the Christian West. This would facilitate the advancement of a spirit of constructive dialogue in our bilateral relations. The Orthodox Greek people, more than other Orthodox peoples, senses more intensely in its religious consciousness and national memory the traumatic experiences, that remain as open wounds inflicted on its vigorous body, as is known to all, by the destructive mania of the Crusaders and the period of Latin rule, as well as by the unlawful proselytizing of the Latin Unia. Yet until now, there has not been heard even a single request for pardon.

 

Indeed, on many occasions in our history, our people bitterly noted that the powerful Church of Rome denied it during difficult moments; that, she frequently oppressed its ecclesial conscience; and that, she wronged it even with regard issues of its national concern. It would be useless for us to set forth a list of events, either from among those that belong to the past, or among those that remain as sores on the historical body of the Church. The problem of Unia, for example, which constitutes the basic reason for the blockage of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox theological dialogue. That which is important is that we await a courageous word to be uttered by Your lips, the word of a Christian Bishop that speaks to our heart. This word must set the foundation stone on which shall be built understanding, forgiveness and reconciliation.

 

Surely Your bold word will not automatically resolve our dogmatic and ecclesiological differences. This shall be achieved with the grace of God through a sincere theological dialogue, which already has been taking place over the last two decades, albeit facing hurdles. The dialogue in truth between the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches must be based on the common Apostolic faith of the undivided Church of the seven Ecumenical Councils and on our Patristic Tradition. «We seek», together with our Holy Father St. Mark of Ephesus, «and we pray for our return to that time when, being united, we spoke the same things and there was no schism between us». (Acta Graecorum, p 53)

 

In this common course we have as illustrious examples the God - bearing Fathers of the Church of the first millennium, both Eastern and Western. They illumined, and continue to illumine both by their word and deed, the spiritual course of the Church in this world. Thus they showed themselves not only as brilliant examples of men who placed the greater interest of the Church of God, before all personal or worldly expedience, but also as the diachronically fixed criterion for the continuous confirmation of the healthy functioning of ecclesiastical memory.

 

Your Holiness, representing the two thousand year historical course of Western Christendom, is well aware of the priceless contribution of the Greek Holy Fathers of the East to the formation of the spiritual legacy of the Christian world of the West, as for example Saints Athanasius the Great, Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian, John Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria, Irenaeus of Lugdunum, Maximus the Confessor. Without them the establishment of Western Tradition in its entirety would have been difficult, if not impossible. This can be readily seen in the declarations concerning the relations of the Roman Catholic with the Orthodox Church made by the Second Vatican Synod (1962-1965). Thus, Your Holiness in the recent encyclical «Ut unum sint» proposed that all differences that have disrupted the communio in sacris, be dealt with on the basis of the Patristic and the wider ecclesiastical Tradition of the first millennium.

 

Your Holiness also is well aware that the Orthodox Church, having held firmly on to the common Tradition of the first millennium, lives and experiences the entire mystery of Divine Economy in Christ, in the Holy Eucharist par excellence, not simply as remembrance, but as continuous manifestation of the Holy Spirit, Who composes and sustains the entire institution of the Church. In it also is preserved the resounding voice of the Western Fathers, as for example of Saints Cyprian of Carthage, Ambrose of Milan, Augustine of Hippo, Leo of Rome, Gregory Dialogus, Martin the Confessor Pope of Rome et al. Through their voice was strengthened the communion of faith in the bond of love. We yearn therefore to return to this unity. Henceforth, «being eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace» may we reach that point when we all confess «one body and one Spirit, just as we were called to the one hope that belongs to our call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all». (Eph. 4, 3 - 6)

 

Walking uprightly, we wish to work, with the Lord’s blessing, for the formation of a United Europe. We hail Your decision to recognize the enlightening and civilizing mission in Europe of our Greek Saints Cyril and Methodius, from Macedonia. The time has come for us to work together in order to welcome the Slavic, Baltic and other European peoples, both those who are Orthodox and those who are not, and Cyprus, into the bosom of United Europe.

 

It should be noted that, even though the Apostolic island of Cyprus groans for a quarter century as a result of barbarous partition, a victim of brutal ethnic cleansing, having suffered hecatombs of dead and missing martyrs on behalf of liberty, living through constant vandalism and looting of its most beautiful Christian monuments, she has not heard even one statement of sympathy on the part of Your Holiness, even though You have frequently and justifiably intervened on behalf of different peoples of our planet.

 

The time has come for us to coordinate our efforts to assure that Europe remain a Christian land, away from the apparent tendency to transform her nations into atheist states (états laiques), denying their Christian identity. The time has come for us to work for a United Europe, that respects its minorities as well as the freedom of each of its peoples to retain its faith, its language, its culture and its tradition, in other words, its spiritual identity.

 

Having always before us His will, we shall work, neither to increase the influence of one Church at the expense of another, nor to reinforce our superiority on the basis of secular criteria, that are foreign to our spirituality, but in order to contain the insatiable appetite of injustice, to relieve the suffering of God’s children, to offer to man of the twenty first century the one Gospel of life, grace and freedom; to put forth the hope of faith to contemporary man who, while inundated by material goods and technological achievements, greatly suffers from the lack of hope, inner peace and certitude.

 

Your Holiness,

 

We wholeheartedly wish You a blessed stay in our homeland. Even more, we wish that Your visit constitute the beginning of positive developments in the great matter of the unity of all, and that it should be for the glory of God.

Amen.

 

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Messages Inline: 1 All Outline: 1 2 3

1. None We knew of all those Greek Complaints from Day 1 /eom by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, May 31
1. Disagree Good luck then to your ecumenical delusion with the Orthodoxs. (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, May 31
2. None Papal Apology Boosts Ecumenical Dialogue by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, May 31
1. Disagree Sure ... dream on, anti-Protestant Mr Tan! by Christopher Yip, 2001, May 31
(_ None Cling on With Jesus, Or Pour Cold Water on Jesus' Prayer (John 17:21-23) by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, Jun 05
(_ Warning Beware of those who ADD to Jesus' Salvation Under the Pretense of Unity! by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jun 05
3. None Ecumenical Impetus from Papal Apology by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, May 31
1. Disagree Another Evidence for the Corruptible and Fallible Church of Rome. by Christopher Yip, 2001, May 31
(_ More The sins of the apostles do not invalidate the infallibility of their message by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, Jun 05
(_ Disagree True for the Apostles but different for the Popes ... by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jun 05
4. None The Catholic Church Includes Many Non-Roman Catholics by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, May 31
1. Disagree They are ALL followers of the Church of Rome, just different rites. by Christopher Yip, 2001, May 31
(_ None They are ancient Churches everywhere - all part of the 2000-year-old Catholic Church. eom by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, Jun 05
(_ Warning Correction (again!) - Part of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, not the Catholic Church of Christ. Tsk tsk. (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jun 05
(_ None Thanks for your admission that the RCC is the 2000-year-old Catholic Church of Pope Stephen, Zosimus. by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, Jun 06
(_ Disagree 2nd Try: " Correction (again!) - Part of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, not the Catholic Church of Christ. Tsk tsk. (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jun 07
5. None Reflections on the Sack of Constantinople in 1204 and Lesser-Known Byzantine Atrocities by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, May 31
1. More Greek Atrocities Against the Latins by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, Jun 05
1. More Past Reunion Efforts Disrupted (Due to Islamic Occupation)? by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, Jun 05
1. Warning A Fine Example of Roman Catholic Apologists' History Writing (long but worthwhile). by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jun 07
2. Warning Tit for tat eh? by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jun 05
1. None Good. I am NOT replying to Christodoulos. So, the Pope condemned those Crusaders who abused their missions. eom. by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, Jun 06
1. More You Wish So Simple, eh? by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jun 07
2. None Pope Innocent III - The Crusades and His "AGENDA" ??? by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, Jun 06
1. More Pope Innocent III: "The Crusade must not attack Christians" ; He Condemned the Crusaders. by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, Jun 06
1. Disagree Let the Eastern Orthodox Enlighten Dave Armstrong. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jun 08
(_ None Time for Christopher to DO PENANCE. Pope Innocent III vindicated once again ! by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, Jun 13
2. Disagree Yet Another Glowing Example of Mere Assertions. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jun 08
6. None Rome's Orthodoxy Never Fails. by Matthew Tan Yew Hock, 2001, May 31

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