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Disagree 2nd Try: " Correction (again!) - Part of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, not the Catholic Church of Christ. Tsk tsk. (eom) 

Forum: Theological Expressions
Re: None Reconciliation, Towards Unity: JOINT STATEMENT BY POPE, ORTHODOX PRELATE (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re: More PAPAL APOLOGY TO GREEK ORTHODOX (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re: More "Enemy" Churches Praying Together: Pope and Orthodox Archbishop Christodoulos of Athens (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re: Disagree Read What Christodoulos Says to John Paul II (Christopher Yip)
Re: None The Catholic Church Includes Many Non-Roman Catholics (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re: Disagree They are ALL followers of the Church of Rome, just different rites. (Christopher Yip)
Re: None They are ancient Churches everywhere - all part of the 2000-year-old Catholic Church. eom (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re: Warning Correction (again!) - Part of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, not the Catholic Church of Christ. Tsk tsk. (eom) (Christopher Yip)
Re: None Thanks for your admission that the RCC is the 2000-year-old Catholic Church of Pope Stephen, Zosimus. (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Date: 2001, Jun 07
From: Christopher Yip CKHY

Anti-Protestant Mr Tan is so desperate that he has to misrepresent my words just to prove his case. Quite pathetic.

Let me make it clear.

The CATHOLIC CHURCH OF CHRIST consists of all believers and denominations which are built upon the doctrines of the apostles which basically is sola fide and sola Scriptura.

This CATHOLIC CHURCH is UNIVERSAL of which the Church of Rome is only PART of it.

"CATHOLIC" is a common adjective used by many denominations. There are at least SEVEN Churches which refer to themselves as "Catholic Church" one way or another. The following comes from a ROMAN CATHOLIC website:

http://users.exis.net/~frimmin/Faith/apostolic.html

We have a list of “Catholic Churches”:

1. The Catholic Church aka The Roman Catholic Church or The Western Church

2. The Church of the East aka Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Assyrian Church of the East whose identity became separate in 431 when she refused to attend Council of Ephesus in protest of "Nestorian controversy"

3. Oriental Orthodox which was part of united church until 459 Council of Chalcedon. Split over semantics in describing the nature(s) of Christ.

4. Eastern Orthodox aka Orthodox Catholic Church (see later)

5. Apostolic Lutherans

Most Lutheran Churches made no attempt to keep the Apostolic Succession, but the Swedish and Finnish Lutherans did.

6. Anglican

Identity became separate in 16th century by King Henry VIII of England.

7. Independent Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican Churches

An example is The Anglican Catholic Church which is Orthodox as regarding their theology, but Anglican as to their heritage.

Now, all seven of these churches call themselves “Catholic” one way or the other. And most of them, if not all, can trace their roots to ancient past. It is only in anti-Protestant Mr Tan's mind that the ancient CATHOLIC CHURCH = ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. Only in his wildest dream was there THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH and all others under her.

Back to the original point of this thread: are all those Eastern Catholic churches mentioned in the news report part of the Catholic Church of the first century - Melkite, Armenian, Chaldean, Syrian, and Maronite?

We have to be careful. If we want to be charitable, we can say yes they are. They are part of the Roman Catholic Church which in turn WAS a part of the CATHOLIC CHURCH OF CHRIST of the first century. All these churches are just different rites or branches of the Roman Catholic Church.

On the other hand, since they all embraced the heresy of Roman Catholicism, although they WERE part of the first Church, they can no longer be considered part of the true CATHOLIC CHURCH.

In other words, if being part of the Catholic Church is by HISTORICAL link, then the Roman Catholic Church was and is while the Protestant churches aren't. But if membership of the CATHOLIC CHURCH is by fidelity to apostolic doctrine, viz. sola Scriptura and sola fide, then the Roman Catholic Church, even though they call themselves "Catholic", is NO LONGER part of the CATHOLIC CHURCH while the Protestant churches are the true heirs.

So, it is a complete misrepresentation of my words for anti-Protestant Mr Tan to say

"Thank you for your admission that this is the (Roman) Catholic Church. This is the Church of Jesus Christ founded on the Rock, and the gates of hell will never prevail against it. (with Rome being the Apostolic See)"

The ROMAN Catholic Church is not the 2000 year old CATHOLIC CHURCH which was founded on the apostles with Christ being the chief cornerstone. All I said was that the churches mentioned in the news report - Melkite, Armenian, Chaldean, Syrian, and Maronite - were part of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, not the CATHOLIC CHURCH since by embracing Roman Catholicism, they no longer continued Christ's true Church.

Quite pathetic - the status of Roman Catholic apologetics.

Christopher

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