Let the Eastern Orthodox Enlighten Dave Armstrong.

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Let the Eastern Orthodox Enlighten Dave Armstrong.

Forum: Theological Expressions
Re:

Reconciliation, Towards Unity: JOINT STATEMENT BY POPE, ORTHODOX PRELATE (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re:

PAPAL APOLOGY TO GREEK ORTHODOX (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re:

"Enemy" Churches Praying Together: Pope and Orthodox Archbishop Christodoulos of Athens (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re:

Read What Christodoulos Says to John Paul II (Christopher Yip)
Re:

Reflections on the Sack of Constantinople in 1204 and Lesser-Known Byzantine Atrocities (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re:

Greek Atrocities Against the Latins (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re:

Tit for tat eh? (Christopher Yip)
Re:

Pope Innocent III - The Crusades and His "AGENDA" ??? (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re:

Pope Innocent III: "The Crusade must not attack Christians" ; He Condemned the Crusaders. (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Date: 2001, Jun 08
From: Christopher Yip CKHY

Dave Armstrong said, "But when all is said and done, I see no point in adding up bodies for both sides. The point is that there is enough sin to go around, and the whole thing should be dropped, in my opinion, for the sake of unity. Both sides have acknowledged wrongs and it is time to move ahead. We can't change the past."
Of course it is pointless to count bodies but that is not the point, in my analysis, of the message of the Eastern Orthodox Church. THE POINT IS THAT THE LATINISATION OF THE EAST IS A DELIBERATE AND CALCULATED MOVE BY ROME, it is not a fluke, and in consequence to this SINFUL AMBITION to SUBJECT the ENTIRE CHURCH TO ROME, the Popes have done everything, from political manoeuvres to outright war, to secure it.
Was it on Innocent III's agenda to subject Constantinople to Latin ecclesiastical rule? Philip Schaff said:
http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/history/5_ch07.htm (the earlier url was erroneous)
"Innocent III., on ascending the papal throne, threw himself with all the energy of his nature into the effort of reviving the crusading spirit. He issued letter after letter433 to the sovereigns of England, France, Hungary, and Sicily.434 He also wrote to the Byzantine emperor, urging him to resist the Saracens and SUBJECT THE GREEK CHURCH TO ITS MOTHER, ROME.435"
Is this a figment of Schaff's imagination? Footnote 435 is important. It shows that the source of this information is found in Migne's "Innocent III Letters", page 214.
http://www.patriarchate.org/book/Third_Period.html
"In the third period of patriarchal history, from 1261 to 1453, but increasingly after the late fourteenth century, the last but greatest enemy of the Byzantines, the Ottoman Turks of Asia, advanced closer and closer to Constantinople... The danger from the advancing Turks soon became so pressing that in order to secure military aid, the Emperors were forced to turn to the greatest source of power in the West, the Papacy. But THE POPES OF ROME WOULD OFFER NO AID UNLESS THE GREEKS ACCEPTED THE POPES AS THE HEAD OF THEIR CHURCH, in other words, unless they converted to Roman Catholicism with its beliefs and practices.
The Byzantine common people of course violently objected to this, as did the monks, nuns, almost all of the middle class, and the larger part of the upper class... The Patriarch himself, followed by the vast bulk of the Greek populace, therefore refused to compromise his Orthodox beliefs by accepting papal jurisdiction as well as belief in the filioque and the azyma in order, presumably, to save the Empire."
Christopher