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Rebuttals rejected !

Forum: Theological Expressions
Re:

Misrepresentations of Catholic Teachings by William Webster (Matthew Tan Yew Hock)
Re:

Got meh? Where? Can't Find at ALL! (Christopher Yip)
Date: 2001, Jun 13
From: Matthew Tan Yew Hock MatthewTan

First of all, I want to make one point very clear. I do not intend to make this new thread the place for debate about Catholic doctrines. I merely want to show that William Webster has mis-represented Catholic teachings. The Protestants are joined to the Catholic Church by the Holy Spirit, and are in real but imperfect communion with the Catholic Church - because of their participation in the Sacrament of the New Law (or New Covenant) and their life in Christ. They are joined to the Church through their Baptism - a necessary sacrament. Protestants TODAY are not responsible for the schisms. They may be saved through faith in Christ. Such pronouncements from the Popes and the Vatican II Council, and from the most recent document Dominus Iesus, have been made known in this MessageBoard and to Christopher a few times. Christopher is familiar with them. I repeat, and will not repeat again in this thread, that salvation is through Christ's ONLY Church - which is the Body of Christ in the biblical and fullest sense, and the Church is ONE, and it subsists in the Catholic Church, and Protestants are joined to the Catholic Church through the Holy Spirit in real but imperfect communion. And, If anyone knows the truth that the Christ's Church subsists in the Catholic Church, and that Christ's Church is necessary for salvation, and refuses to enter it or remain in it, they may not be saved. If they don't know, or/and are subject to an ignorance that is invincible through no fault of their own, they may be still saved through Christ and their obedience to God. Invincible ignorance about Christ's Church is prevalent and reality today because of the many misinformation, distortions, misrepresentations of Catholic teachings and of the bible - made possible only through modern medium of communication. If they do know the truth and still refuses to join or remain in the Church, they are in obstinate and deliberate disobedience to God and to God's ordained authority if they remain in heresy or schism. The Popes and the Vatican II Council has rightly discerned and pronouced that Protestants, in general though not everyone, are not in obstinate and deliberate disobedience. Before the Protestant Reformation, Catholic and bible teachings are received solely through the Church - and the heretics and schismatics had the priviledge of receiving teachings, counselling, correcting, and rebuking through the Church's authority itself. If they remain heretics and schismatics by their obstinate and deliberate disobedience, they may not be saved. (Please refer to my first "Mis-representations" in this thread for context and details about disobedience and authority). I stand by all that I have written in the first two "Misrepresentations". I have made my points very clear and will not repeat. - The most William Webster and Christopher can show us is that the Popes and Councils of apparently contradicted themselves. These apparent contradictions are really paradoxes which can be explained - and the Popes and Vatican II have explained it very well - and I tried my very best to present the Church's understanding and teachings. - We can even see many such apparent contradictions in the bible also - which are also paradoxes which can be explained. Example: On the one hand, the bible says, * there is no salvation except through Christ's name On the other hand, it also says (these passages have been shown to Christopher before): * Gentiles who have no law, are justified if they observe the law in their heart - i.e. the conscience. * whosover fear God and do what is right is acceptable to God * if you are blind, then you are not guilty. Since you claim that you can see, your guilt remains in you. God's mercy through Jesus: * Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing. * God is fair and just and reasonable - I will continue to show William Webster's misrepresentations here, so that readers will know the authentic Catholic teachings in its fullest (and not the "cut and paste", "plug and play" versions of it). I will not respond any further on points of doctrines in this thread. I do not want to be distracted and be diverted to these points of doctrine. We will deal with Matt 16:18-19 and the Primacy of Peter (and His Successors) at other time and in another thread, if I can still afford the time. For this, we will have to deal with William Webster's quotations and interpretations again.