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Christopher,

Thank You for the Reply

You : I'm surprised you wrote this. Do you realise that the moment you exegete Scriptures, with or without reference to lexicons by (mere) men like Strong or Thayer, and offer up your exegesis on a particular issue, you have joined the long list of (mere) men like Luther, Calvin, Wesley? And according to your reasoning, why should we listen to your opinion too since you obviously are just a man too?

Me: That is whole point ! . What I write IS MY OPINION and carries no more weight than yours, O Learned Theolgian! Or Calvin's , Luthers or the pope's. Neither does mine or yours carry any less. People listen to whom they will. My point is that Christians who want to know the truth listen not to me or you or our "Theology" but to the Scriptures themselves. I am I wrong here? If so then show me Scripture to that effect and be able to back it up.

You: So, you are of the opinion that sign gifts are given only to those those who believe they continue to exist today? Isn't this a bit chicken and egg?

Me: What ? Wher did that comne from ? Please don't put words in my mouth. Chickens and eggs don’t cut it with me. That is feeble. I did not say that or imply any such thing (please reread).

You: Read Powell's article.

Me: I might, But I am more interested in YOUR personal understanding of the Scripture not Powell's. I assume you do have some personal understanding of Scripture.

You: Isn't your view one of these ("others")? Should I ignore you?

Me: That is your choice. You can ignore who you will. I believe I was fairly plain. Do you think everything is black or white ? If it is not "Yipsim" then it is false doctrine? (Just for laughs not meant to be offensive.)

You: Just for fun and not meant to be offensive, it just sprang to my mind. Someone said before that those who can see truth on both sides of an issue probably don't understand what the issue is about! Just for laughs.

Me. Well if "someone" said it then it must be true eh ! Where did I say that I could see "truth" on both sides ? However, I can see how the "theories" came to be and I can many times see the point one is attempting to make. And I can also see the flaws in both sides of an argument when poor hermenueutice are used. Poor and weak hermeneutics is many time used for exegesis on the true side of an argument at the expense of opening the door to false doctrines.

In my post I was suggesting that your argument was weak and not based on good hermeneutics. Whether or not either side is right or wrong is many time not the issue. Sometimes there are more than two sides. Or both sides of a two sided argumnt are wrong. That was just for laughs ?. I am still rolling on the floor.

But to be real plain. I do not believe in cessationism. The arguments are too weak and it takes a real leap of non-faith to go there.

You: I supposed the above is a riddle for me - to guess the reason for that translation

Me: No, actually it was rhetoric. I would never encourage anyone to guess about something as important as the Word of God.

You: Didaskalia is teaching and instruction which implies learning. Teaching that is authoritative becomes doctrine and dogma. So, the choice of teaching, learning, instruction or doctrine depends on the context

Me: I agree. Didaskalia literally means learning. "Doctrine" is an engish word which by today's theological usage has a somewhat different meaning or connotation than didaskalia of the New Testamant. The concept of a pragmatic, dogmatic set of beliefs to be complied with, sometimes at the threat of death ( carried out) or excommunication ( "Doctrine") came about early in the church as people fell away for the teachings of the Apostles and gnostic thinking finally prevailed. Our Churches are riddles with it. And it is my OPINION that without civil laws these executions and such would still be happening today. Particularily in the case of Rome and Right Wing Christians. Even our beloved Calvin had no problem having folks executed for their beliefs. Kill the heretic !

Nontheless, Christopher, who decides what is "authoritive" ? Christopher Yip ?, Bill Roth, Calvin, Luther, the pope, the ante -nicean church fathers, or the the "councils" of muderous men. This is not rhetoric. Who decides ?

1 Corinthians 1:10 -29 (KJV)

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

1 Corinthians 3:3-8 (KJV)

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

5 Who then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Matthew 5:17- 20 (KJV)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven

What I can say at this point in my learning, is that is that you cannot decide for me and I cannot decide for you. Many Christians that are weak in the faith and in knowledge of Scripture find it easier to follow a code of faith or a particular theology than go to the scriptures themselves as they are not encouraged to search the scriptures daily to see whether these things are so.

Act 17:11( KJV) These( the Bereans) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

In Contrast:

1Corinthians 12:2 (KJV) Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

Many people just want to be led. That is what they have been taught. And many of out so called learned scholars are like the Pharisees in Matthew 22:

Matthew 22:29 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

I think though that we almost agree about the Old Testament as it relates to "doctrine/learning. My point there was not the doctrine of doctrine. But our willingness to conform the the Word of God and not force it to conform to our pre-conceived theology.

Maybe we so called theologians should all get together and go back to Vacation Bible School and all hold hands and Sing "Jesus Loves Me This I know For The Bible Tells Me So" untill we all forget our theology. And then all we would know is that Jesus Loves us. Then we could have some unity and then start over from there.

God Bless You

Bill

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