Clarification.

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Clarification.

Forum: Theological Expressions
Re:

"Impartation" theology
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For those interested only - On Cessationism. (Christopher Yip)
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Miracles still exists. It takes faith to believe
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Cannot be...
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Just because there are counterfeit currencies doesn't mean the real ones aren't legitimate. (SK)
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How do these "miracles" disprove cessationism? (eom) (Christopher Yip)
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Adoi...since when is cessation a proven doctrine for all denominations? n/t (SK)
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Which one? (GiGi)
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I only know of those denominations that know the Truth and walk in the truth.... (SK)
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... as defined by YOU, SK? (if I may add)(still in satori mode ;-)) (eom) (Christopher Yip)
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Since you don't like my version, ask RTC! He's specializes in Church history. (SK)
Date: 2001, Jul 02
From: Christopher Yip CKHY

Dear SK,
I am not sure what you are saying in this post. Perhaps you misunderstood my point.
The beginning of this thread says that miracles still exist and that it takes faith - presumably for it to work. Actually this already missed the issue between cessationism and non-cessationism. Cessationists DO NOT SAY THAT MIRACLES CANNOT HAPPEN TODAY. God can work miracles anytime He chooses. Cessationists say that the SIGN GIFTS have ceased after the apostolic era. Sign gifts have ceased but not miracles.
Secondly, the bible does not support the thesis that faith is required all the time for miracles to take place:
These are healings without the faith of the recipient: a centurion's servant (Matt 8:5-13), a paralytic (Matt 9:2-8), two blind men (Matt 9:27-31), a blind and mute man (Matt 12:22).
These are healings where faith of recipient could not be present: raising Jairus' daughter (Matt 9:18-26), raising a widow's son (Lk 7:11-15), raising Lazarus (John 11:17-44).
And best of all, healings where there is even unbelief - sick in Nazareth (Mk 6:5)
The common element in all these instances is God's sovereign will to heal, not the recipient's or any others' faith.
Following this post, someone second the thesis saying "cannot be" because of miracles seen in India but this is NOT the point. Miracles may exist but cessationism is about the sign GIFTS.
Hence, I asked how do these miracles disprove cessationism? In fact, what have these miracles to say about cessationism? That's when you came back with a Zen statement like "adoi, since when is cessationism a proven doctrine for all denominations"?
I was still reeling over this remark when GiGi asked which denomination you refer to. Your reply was:
"I only know of those denominations that know the Truth and walk in the truth.... no matter what names they're called by men or in church history books. Does this makes sense?"
So, I gather that you know only those non-cessationists denominations which you regard as those who know and walk in the Truth. Perhaps I read you wrongly. In other words, only non-cessationist denominations know and walk the truth but isn't that begging the question? They walk the truth because non-cessationism is true, and non-cessationism is true because there are these non-cessationist churches which walk the truth?
That is why I said ... as defined by you.
Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing here. Why do you refer me to church history? Are you saying that church history shows that sign gifts have perpetuate even after the apostolic period? If so, I would certainly like to hear RTC's church history that shows sign gifts in operation after the apostolic period.
Regards,
Christopher