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None Traditional Ordination 

Forum: Theological Expressions
Date: 2001, Jul 07
From: Bill Roth bmadroth

God Bless

God Bless

Traditional Ordination  by Bill Roth

 


The purpose of this research is to examine the Scripural basis for the doctrine and practice of "Traditional Ordination" and the effects it has on today's Christian believing community as it is practiced today.

This is by no means an exhaustive study of Christisn Ordination but rather a brief research on the word "ordain" and "ordained" and cursory look at it's practice as it affects the church. This study is aimed at no particular denomination group or individual.

In almost all Christian denominations, churches and in many other Christian fellowships there is established the practice and doctrine of "ordination".

For the purpose of this reasearch when I use the term "Traditional Ordination” I am refering to ordination in the sense as it is viewed and practiced today.

The Encyclopedia Brittanica speaks of traditional ordination as follows:

Quote:


"Traditional ordination in Christian churches, is a rite for the dedication and commissioning of ministers. The essential ceremony (ususlly ) consists of the laying of hands of the ordaining minister upon the head of the one being ordained, with prayer for the gifts of the Holy Spirit and of grace required for the carrying out of the ministry. The service also usually includes a public examination of the candidate and a sermon or charge concerning the responsibilities of the ministry." Encyclopedia Brittanica




Christianity derived the ceremony from the Jewish custom of ordaining rabbis by the laying on of hands (the Semikha).


Quote:


"Ordination involves both setting apart and the conveyance of a gift, and the theme of identification is implicit in that the one ordained shares in the authority and is the representative of the ordainer. The imposition of hands connected with baptism is a means whereby the convert is identified and so brought into the community; it is further a setting apart for the service of God and is, on occasion, connected with the gift of the Holy Spirit. The New Testament further indicates that the imposition of hands conveyed a blessing and was a means of healing.
The early church continued these uses and added two more: the imposition of hands for the blessing of catechumens (i.e., those preparing for baptism) and for the reconciliation of penitents and heretics. The church has preserved the use of this ritual act, primarily in the rites of ordination and confirmation." Encyclopedia Brittanica.




Today, in the both the Prodestant and Roman Catholic churches and in many other "non denominational" fellowships, ordination is practiced in various forms. Usually a person is selected and is "ordained" into a position of ministry or authority within a congregation of believers. Usually a title is conferred upon the person ordained. This titles varies from pastor, reverend, elder, bishop, deacon, priest and others. Many of these titles are non-Scriptural.

The authority that goes with that position or title also varies form group to group but can range from simple pastorship to outright oppressive and/or subervise domination.

The selection process and qualifications for ordination vary from group to group. Most mainstream denominations require an accredited degree and /or attendance at a Seminary. Others seem to have no officially established qualifications. However, usually some kind of training is required. On the other hand sometimes the selection can more of a political process than anything else.

Definition of Ordain

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

1. To set in order; to arrange according to rule; to regulate; to set; to establish. ``Battle well ordained.'' --Spenser. The stake that shall be ordained on either side. --Chaucer.
2. To regulate, or establish, by appointment, decree, or law; to constitute; to decree; to appoint; to institute.
Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month. --1 Kings xii. 32. And doth the power that man adores ordain Their doom ? --Byron.
3. To set apart for an office; to appoint. Being ordained his special governor. --Shak.
4. (Eccl.) To invest with ministerial or sacerdotal functions; to introduce into the office of the Christian ministry, by the laying on of hands, or other forms; to set apart by the ceremony of ordination.
Meletius was ordained by Arian bishops. --Bp. Stillingfleet.


SCRIPITURAL EVIDENCE

There is no Scriptural evidence in the New Testament that supports the doctrine and practice of "traditional ordination"

In the New Testament (King James) the word "ordain" or "ordained" appears 23 times in the following Scriptures. I have ordered these verses according to the Greek word used for ordain. All transiterated words are from Strongs Concordance. They are the root form. not the inflected form unless otherwise noted.

Definitions are either from Strongs or Perseus Tufts. (Liddell)

These transliterated Greek words are: poieo, tithemi, histimi, horizo, tasso and cheirotoneo. Other words are noted but are msitranslations. In the cases of both 2Ti 4:22 and Ti 3:15 ordained [cheirotoneo] appears as a added postscript. These two verses are of no authority and need no further comment

In any case none of the Greek words for "ordain" used in the King James Bible have any special ecleseastical or sacrodotal meaning or conotation.


poieo to make, to be

Mar 3:14 And he (Jesus) ordained [poieo] twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

This is the only place in the KJV where "poieo" is translated ordain. Most other English Versions use appoint rather than ordain.

tithemi- to set in place, to appoint for a particular purpose

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained [tithemi] you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained [tithemi] a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, [and] lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.


histemi to set , place or put., to cause or make to stand

Tts 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain [kathistemi=kata+histemi] elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

Titus was appointed to set in place "elders" in the churches of Crete. There is no mention of ceremony, laying on of hands, vestments or other things asociated with traditional ordination.


Hbr 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained [kathistemi = kata+histemi] for men in things [pertaining] to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

Hbr 8:3 For every high priest is ordained [kathistemi] to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore [it is] of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

These verses in Hebrews, in context, are being used as an analogy of the Old Testamant Priesthood as it relates to Jesus Christ now being the High Priest of His Church and the priesthood of all believers.

Hbr 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Hbr 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Peter refers to the priesthood of all believers.

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

This contradicts the practice of the separation of the "ordained" clergy and the non-ordained laity and would confer upon all believers the rights of (New Testament) priesthood.


horizo - to define, to mark out the boundaries or limits (of any place or thing) determine, appoint
that which has been determined, to ordain, determine

Act 10:42 And he ( Jesus) commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained [horizo] of God [to be] the Judge of quick and dead.

Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man ( Jesus) whom he hath ordained [horizo] ; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead.

These verses refer directly to Jesus Christ and have no eccleseastical significance supporting traditional ordination.

1Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before [proorizo= pro + horizo] the world unto our glory:

Self explanitory.

tasso - to set in place, proclaim, declare, establish

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained [tasso] to eternal life believed.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained [tasso] of God.

1Cr 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain [diatasso] I in all churches.

1Cr 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained [diatasso] that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained [diatasso] by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained [diatasso] by angels in the hand of a mediator.

These verses above are concerning the establishment or setting in place of things.


cheirotoneo - 1. to vote by stretching out the hand. 2 to create or appoint by vote: one to have charge of some office or duty 3. to elect, create, appoint
Act 14:23 And when they had ordained [cheirotoneo] them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed

This record in Acts 14:23 uses the word "cheirotoneo." yet KJ translates it "ordain." This cannot be construed as "ordained" in the modern Traditional sense. For another usage of cheirotoneo see:

2Cr 8:19 And not [that] only, but who was also chosen [cheirotoneo] of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and [declaration of] your ready mind:

Secular Greek writings help in understanding cheirotoneo:

I. to stretch out the hand, for the purpose of voting, Plut., Luc.
II. c. acc. pers. to vote for, elect, properly by show of hands, Ar., Dem.:--Pass. to be elected, Ar., etc.; cheirotonęthęnai, election, was opp. to lachein, appointment by lot, Plat., etc.
2. c. acc. rei, to vote for a thing, Dem.; so c. inf. to vote that . . , Aeschin.:-- Pass., kecheirotonętai hubris einai it is voted, ruled to be violence, Dem. (From Liddell & Scott - Perseus))

Also note the the word "commended" and "elders" in Acts 14:23
Commended is the word "parathemi"

1) to place beside or near or set before
2) to place down with any one, to intrust, commit to one's charge

So in Acts 14:23 Paul and Barbabus and possibly others in those churches "voted" by a show of hands as to who was elected elders and these elders were commended to the Lord.

There is no record here of the laying of special ceremony or of intensive training or of many of the other things associated with "Traditional Ordination".

krino - to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
to approve, esteem, to prefer
to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
to determine, resolve, decree to judge

Act 16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained [krino] of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

Self explanatory:

hetoimazo

1) to make ready, prepare
1a) to make the necessary preparations, get everything ready
2) metaph.
2a) drawn from the oriental custom of sending on before kings on
their journeys persons to level the roads and make them passable

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained [proetoimazo= pro + hetoimazo ] that we should walk in them.

Self Explanatory


Ginomi - to become, i.e. to come into existence

Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained [ginomai] to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

This is a mistranslation of ginomi.

grapho - to write

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained [prographo= pro+grapho] to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is a mistranslation of grapho.


kataskeuos ( kateskeuasmenon) fully prepared or set up.

Hbr 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained [kataskeuazo kata+ skeuos], the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service [of God].

Self explanatory.


eis - for or unto

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] [eis] to life, I found [to be] unto death.

Mistranslation - Literally: …… unto life vs. unto death


There is no Scriptural evidence in the New Testament that supports "ordination" as it is commonly practiced in the church today. That is in its sacerdotal ( priestly) definition.

In fact the New Testament teaches nothing of "ordaining" one man to an exalted, sacred, and priestly "office" within a church. Neither does it teach that only "ordained" clergymen possess the right to baptize, preach, conduct communion, and lead in congregational worship or meetings , as if the rest of the believing community is unfit to carry out these functions

The traditional idea and practice of "ordination" comes dangerously close to being a sacerdotal and sacramental practice which dominates the Roman Catholic Church.

Traditional "ordination" concepts contradict the New Testament teaching on the priesthood of all believers (Ephesians 4:11-12; 1 Peter 2:5,9; Revelation 1:6; 5:10). It confers upon one person special and priestly rights which is denied to the rest of the congregational members. Yet, according to the New Testament, the entire Christian church is a ministerial body - and in this sense "ordained" - with full authority to minister and actively participate during the church meeting (Romans 12:4-6; 1 Corinthians 12:4-11,14; 14:26; 1 Peter 4:10-11).

The various words translated as "ordain" in some of our English translations carry no special ecclesiastical meaning, but simply means to "appoint." Thus, the New Testament speaks of appointing or laying hands on people for a special task or function, such as serving tables (Acts 6:1-6), evangelism and missionary work (Acts 13:2-5), or eldership (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5).

Let's look at Acts 6:1-6 as an example:

1. And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
2. Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3. Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint [kathistemi] over this business.
4. But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
5. And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
6. Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
Note that the Greek word for "appoint" in verse 3 above is "kathistemi" This is the same word used in Titus 1:5 for "ordain". So in a sense these seven were "ordained" to wait tables.

The New Bible Dictionary has more to say about ordination:

Quote:



Considering the role played by the ministry throughout the history of the church, references to ordination are surprisingly few in the New Testament. Indeed, the word "ordination" does not occur, and the verb "to ordain" in the technical sense does not occur either. A number of verbs are translated "ordain" in [the] Authorized Version, but these all have the meanings like "appoint" (New Bible Dictionary, 2nd ed., s.v. "Ordination," p.861).





Alfred Plummer, an Anglican clergyman and Bible commentator, similarly writes:


Quote:



In these passages [Titus 1:5; Mark 3:14; John 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:7; Hebrews 5:1; 8:3] three different Greek words (poieo, tithemi, kathistemi) are used in the original; but not one of them has the special ecclesiastical meaning which we so frequently associate with the word "ordain"; not one of them implies, as "ordain" in such context almost of necessity implies, a rite of ordination, a special ceremonial, such as the laying on of hands. When in English we say, "He ordained twelve," . . . the mind almost inevitably thinks of ordination in the common sense of the word; and this is foisting upon the language of the New Testament a meaning which the words there used do not rightly bear . . . The Greek words used in the passages quoted might equally well be used of the appointment of a magistrate or a steward. And as we should avoid speaking of ordaining a magistrate or a steward, we ought to avoid using "ordain" to translate words which would be thoroughly in place in such a connection. The Greek words for "ordain" and "ordination," in the sense of imposition of hands in order to admit to an ecclesiastical office (cheipotheti, cheipothesia), do not occur in the New Testament at all ("The Pastoral Epistles," in The Expositor's Bible, ed. W. Robertson Nicoll [New York: Armstrong, 1903], Vol.23, pp.219-221).
The practice and notions of Traditional "ordination" help to perpetuate the "clergy-laity" division. It helps to reinforce the idea that some Christians are called to ministry while others are not. Although adhering to traditional clericalism, John Stott sees its inherent dangers:
"It is only against the background of the equality and unity of the people of God that the real scandal of clericalism may be seen. What clericalism always does, by concentrating power and privilege in the hands of the clergy, is at least to obscure and at worst to annul the essential oneness of the people of God . . . I do not hesitate to say that to interpret the Church in terms of a privileged clerical caste or hierarchical structure is to destroy the New Testament doctrine of the Church . . . In other words, in revealing the nature and work of the Church, the overwhelming preoccupation of the New Testament is not with the status of the clergy, nor with clergy-laity relations, but with the whole people of God in their relations to Him and to each other, the unique people who have been called by His grace to be His inheritance and His ambassador in the world" (One People [New Jersey: Fleming H. Revell, Co., 1973] pp.25-26).




Concerning our traditional "clergy-laity" conceptions, Howard Snyder has insightfully noted:

Quote:


The New Testament simply does not speak in terms of two classes of Christians - "minister" and "laymen" - as we do today. According to the Bible, the people (laos, "laity") of God comprise all Christians, and all Christians through the exercise of spiritual gifts have some "work of ministry" [Ephesians 4:12]. So if we wish to be biblical, we will have to say that all Christians are laymen (God's people) and all are ministers. The clergy-laity dichotomy is unbiblical and therefore invalid. It grew up as an accident of church history and actually marked a drift away from biblical faithfulness. A professional, distinct priesthood did exist in Old Testament days. But in the New Testament this priesthood is replaced by two truths: Jesus Christ is our great high priest, and the Church is a kingdom of priests (Hebrews 4:14; 8:1; 1 Peter 2:9; Revelation 1:6). The New Testament doctrine of ministry rests therefore not on the clergy-laity distinction but on the twin and complementary pillars of the priesthood of all believers and the gifts of the Spirit. Today, four centuries after the Reformation, the full implications of this Protestant affirmation have yet to be worked out. The clergy-laity dichotomy is a direct carry-over from pre-Reformation Roman Catholicism and a throwback to the Old Testament priesthood. It is one of the principle obstacles to the Church effectively being God's agent of the Kingdom today because it creates the false idea that only "holy men," namely, ordained ministers, are really qualified and responsible for leadership and significant ministry. In the New Testament there are functional distinctions between various kinds of ministries but no hierarchical division between clergy and laity (The Community of the King [Downers Grove, IL: Inter-Varsity Press, 1977] pp.94-95).




Traditional "ordination," as commonly understood and practiced, attaches an undue emphasis to one man such as the Pastor, Reverend, Doctor, Priest, etc. at the exclusion of the rest of the believing community. The New Testament not only teaches that the local church is to be pastored by a plurality of godly men (Acts 14:23; 20:17,28; Philippians 1:1; 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13; 1 Timothy 5:17; Titus 1:5; Hebrews 13:17; James 5:14; 1 Peter 5:1-4), but we ought never to make one man alone the focal-point of our church gatherings (as commonly practiced in most "evangelical" churches) - "For the body is not one member, but many" (1 Corinthians 12:14).

Elders are not appointed to a hierarchical and clerical office (which is modeled after the power-structures of this world), but to a pastoral function. This means service. Their primary task is to humbly and sacrificially serve the saints so that they might reach maturity and effectively fulfill God's purpose for their lives (Ephesians 4:11-16; Colossians 1:28; Hebrews 6:1). It is more than just teaching the Word of God it is also teaching and demonstrating how to do the Word.


Quote:



Elders, deacons, reverends etc. are not appointed to a special priestly office or holy clerical order. Instead, they are assuming offices of leadership or service among God's people. We should be careful not to sacralize these positions more than the writers of Scripture do. The New Testament never shrouds the installation of elders in mystery or sacral ritual. There is no holy rite to perform or special ceremony to observe. Appointment to eldership is not a holy sacrament. Appointment confers no special grace or empowerment, nor does one become a priest, cleric, or holy man at the moment of installation. The vocabulary of the New Testament is carefully chosen to communicate certain concepts and beliefs, and its writers chose to express simply appointment to office. Therefore, to speak of ordaining elders or deacons is as confusing as speaking of ordaining judges or politicians Biblical Eldership (Littleton, CO: Lewis & Roth Publishers/Revised, 1995) (p.285).




To assert that every Christian is "ordained" to ministry should not be confused with the mistaken idea that everyone is called to serve as an apostle, prophet,evangelist, pastor, teacher,elder or deacon within a local body of believers. While some Christians are indeed ordained (appointed) to church leadership, others are appointed to different ministries and functions. But, either way, the point remains: Each and every believer has gifts for ministry and, thus, called to serve others for God's glory and the church's edification (1 Corinthians 12:4-11; 14:12,26; Colossians 3:16; Hebrews 10:24-25; 1 Peter 4:10-11)


Quote:



This priesthood of all believers by no means excludes a particular pastoral ministry . . . Those who are empowered to exercise a particular pastoral ministry in the church are not, at least as far as the New Testament tells us, a separate caste of consecrated priests, as they often are in primitive religions. They do not act as mediators between God and the people by means of ritual actions which they alone can perform, representing the people before God in sacrifice, and representing God to the people through oracular statements and law-giving. In the Church of Jesus Christ, who is the only high priest and mediator, all the faithful are priests and clergy (The Church [New York: Sheed and Ward, 1967] p.438).




In summary:

1. Modern or "traditional ordination" as it is practiced today is unscriptural.
2. The words translated “ordain” in the New Testament simply mean to appoint, set in place, or elect.
3. The clergy-laity division is a carry-over from pre-Reformation Roman Catholicism and a throwback to the Old Testament priesthood. It is an obstacle Christianity because it creates the false idea that only "holy men," namely, ordained ministers, are really qualified and responsible for leadership and significant ministry.
4. Traditional "ordination" concepts contradict the New Testament teaching on the priesthood of all believers
5. Traditional "ordination," as commonly understood and practiced, may attach an undue emphasis to one man..
6. Elders or leaders are not appointed to a hierarchical and clerical office (which is modeled after the power-structures of this world), but to a pastoral function of service.
7. Each and every believer has gifts for ministry and, thus, called to serve others for God's glory and the church's edification.

Note: According to the laws of most of the 50 States in the U.S.  "ordination" is required for a non Court Appointed or elected official to perform the Rite of Marriage.

God Bless

Bill Roth

I would like to give special thanks and credit to Darryl M. Erkel who allowed me to use portions of his dissertation titled "Problems with Traditional Ordination"

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1. Question Out of Curiosity, Bill, "Prodestants"? by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jul 09
(_ None For Christopher by Bill Roth, 2001, Jul 10
(_ More More by Bill Roth, 2001, Jul 10
(_ Angry Chill out, Bill, and get real! by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jul 10
(_ Feedback Reply to Christopher by Bill Roth, 2001, Jul 10
1. Feedback SMART PERSON NOT WELCOME AMONG "SMART" FOOLS, 2001, Jul 10
1. Feedback Not Welcome by Whom ??? by Bill Roth, 2001, Jul 10
1. Question A SIMPLE QUESTION BECOMES AN ATTACK !, 2001, Jul 12
(_ Disagree To Anonymous by Bill Roth, 2001, Jul 12
2. None is chris a baby?, 2001, Jul 11
3. Ok Chris by Emmanuel, 2001, Jul 11
1. None Emmanuel, a lot to read .. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jul 11
2. Pray For Emmanuel by Bill Roth, 2001, Jul 13
1. Sad Bill, this shows the 'sincerity' of your peace offer! I had a hunch you wouldn't go down so easily. (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jul 14
1. Note Will reply via email. Enough. ( n/t) by Bill Roth, 2001, Jul 14
2. Question Whats happening, Bill? (n/t) by Emmanuel, 2001, Jul 16
2. Angry May I SUGGEST, Bill, that you re-read my initial post? by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jul 10
1. Disagree See my question also to Emmanuel on Evangelista meus, you don't see him reacting like you! by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jul 10
2. Disagree Reply to Christopher by Bill Roth, 2001, Jul 10
1. Disagree Last Post on this ridiculous affair. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jul 11
(_ Feedback Let's Make Peace, OK by Bill Roth, 2001, Jul 12
1. Ok OK. We'll leave it at that and move on. (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Jul 12
2. Feedback LET'S WELCOME PEOPLE LIKE SANTA MONICA TOO, 2001, Jul 13
1. Idea Do you welcome me?...Frank n/t, 2001, Jul 13
1. Ok MY OPINION OF YOU - FRANK, 2001, Jul 13
2. None Read my posting again please, 2001, Jul 13
1. Feedback I SUPPORT ALL ALONG TILL BAFFLED BY RECENT MOVES, 2001, Jul 13
(_ None Untitled, 2001, Jul 13
1. Agree Agree with you Pilgrim...may you continue to share more often... by SK, 2001, Jul 15
1. Sad PLEASE READ OR SHARE LESS FOR YOUR HEALTH SAKE., 2001, Jul 15
2. Question Whats the event? Pastors involved? by Sinner B, 2001, Jul 17
2. Note GOD BLESS YOU BILL ! by law, 2001, Jul 29

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