Words of Jesus

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Words of Jesus

Forum: Theological Expressions
Re:

Corde Natus ex Parentis (Emmanuel)
Re:

Blessing of Objects (Bill Roth)
Re:

Emmanuel
Re:

More (Bill Roth)
Re:

Sorry Bill (Emmanuel)
Date: 2001, Aug 01
From: Bill Roth bmadroth

Brother Emmanuel, You posted: “If he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.” (Matt. 18:17). That’s Jesus speaking. I would listen to Him, if I were you." I will assume this was directed towards me. Ok ? Now I will put this verse also in prospective as it was not used in it's proper context. Matt 18:15-17 (KJV) 15. Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16. But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Let's establish the context. 1. Who was Jeses speaking to. a. We have to go to verse 1 and 2 where we see that Jesus is speakin to his deciples. 2. What is the main idea or subject ? Verse 15 - "If thy Brother trespass against thee ...." a. So we understand that these are instructions to the diciples concerning what to do if a brother trespasses against them. Context --- "If thy brother tresspass against thee" What is the specific message. 1. "go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone" a. If he shall hear the .... 1. thou has gaind thy brother But ...... b. If he will not hear thee .... 1. take with thee one or two more, ....." Why? a. that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. c. And if he shall neglect to hear them.... 1. tell [it] unto the church (Gk - eklesia) but ....... d. but if he neglect to hear the church (Gk- ekklesia), 1. let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. So here is the situation. A brother has trespassed against us. What are we to do . . . ? First, we are to go to that brother ALONE and tell him his fault. If he will hear us then we have gained our brother. But if he will not hear us then what do we do? We take 2 or three witnesses to him and confront him again. If he will still not hear us then we take it to the church. If he will no the hear the church then ..... "let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican" So you see how many chance we give him ? How much grace. We do not go directly to this final step until the other steps are done. So we see that verse 16 cannot be understood properly out of context. It loses all of it's real meaning when quoted by itself. But what about verses 21 and 22 which Jesus spoke right after this . . .? 21. Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22. Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. As we can see from the context and reading before and after, Verse 17 is not takling about alienating a brother or sister because he or she will not accept the doctrines of a church. So if you want to correct me or reprove me with Scripture I would reccomend a different verse of Scripture than this one. Emmanuel, I pray to God that you will try to keep the Scriptures in context when you quote them. And not only for quoting but for you own benefit as well. It is really not that hard, but it does take some effort and willingness. If we make the effort to apply good and honest interpretation methods when we deal with the Word of God, then we can stand approved unto God be as in 2 Timothy 2:15, workmen that need not to be ashamed. How ? By rightly dividing the Word of God. 2 Tim 2:15 (KJV) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." It is not likely that I am right all or even most of the time. But I can say this. I was honest in the way I handled the Word of God. I made great effort to understand the context, to understand the real application, to attempt to understand the essence or meaning of the Scripture. And in so doing these things, I am not ashamed. And I stand approved unto God. God Bless You, Bill