I see it as Obstructions to Church growth.

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I see it as Obstructions to Church growth.

Forum: Theological Expressions
Re:

Church Growth (Wahshing)
Re:

Those who cannot detect Derogatory run down of us,is blind.
Re:

Martin's argues againts methods ... not people (Bill Roth)
Date: 2001, Aug 19
From: frank

Hi Bill,You said...We must not take a challenge of an idea or doctrine as a personal attack.Let's see.
Martin: The goal is success, and success is in numbers. Success in this case is the development of unbiblical programs. Frank: Is numerical growth in Churches a measurement of success? My answer to that is a resounding YES!!!
I read and heard that we must not look to numbers as measuring yardsticks. We must look at quality, not quantity. I read too many, and they are really ignorant of Church growth principles, so babble things out of scriptural contexts.
""Our goals should be failure, and resists growth in Churches, so as to keep small and in depth fellowship, and do deep Biblical studies. A teacher cannot cope with 42 students, and attentions aren’t enough for such magnitude.""
When Numbers are coming to Churches, we should drive them away, for our success is not in numbers, but in correct principles, in correct biblical principles.
A Family of unsaved loved ones, say, 10 in numbers. We should let only 2 hear the Gospel, and 8 to leave them aside. Success is not in the numbers of 10, but in the smaller number of 2..........??
How foolish Christian had become in this world? They say they are not against Church Growth, but in almost every teaching, it set itself in variance with it, crystal clear. The less is better.
We want to reach out to the masses of people, to every tribe, land and nations. It is numbers, my friend! Christian uses TV, they say, it is bad. It uses Jesus Film.But they say, why only Gospel of Luke?No good. They use common sense and common marketing skills, they say, like CEO, very secular! Are we not adopting good strategies for our cause, or must be adopt old, and less Tech methods? Many perhaps have not heard of people opposing the use Microphone. Must we follow Peter ‘s methods, shouting so loud to the audience, in order to win over the 3000 numbers of converts?
It uses commercials, but they say,” it is offending to other religions”, and we get censored. The numbers in Churches growth by leaps and bounds, now they say,” Success is not in numbers”. They now says its methods is wrong! They oppose loud music, oppose Charismatics leaders, oppose talented Singers, and oppose the uses of Magic, as a form to win unsaved people to the Lord...what is next?
Where does it end? Churches that loses it members, and had thus become very small, and many had backsliden, gone the back door [who can help this real problems?]...How is it solutions have not been found? The mega Church manages to hold them together, which is why is Mega!
The real issues.
We have many enemies of the cross’s .I am not in illusions. This is real, and in real life. Christians, lining up to curse Evangelist who preaches in Rallies, in Miracle Rallies! They write materials to oppose Evangelisms! I watch Christian meetings going on, yet at the gate, another Christian groups distributing pamphlets and booklets,” Opposing tongues, opposing Charismatics right under the nose of an evangelistics meetings for the unsaved!"
Methods are wrong in the evangelistics meetings? Methods are wrong in Church growth? I do not think so. It got to do with the Devils for sure. Which side you are on is more the real issues. Our National library has books about Benny Hinn, another Christian witness in our secular world, which is wonderful, but how many are still at variance against him,personally?PERSONALLY?
The real issues are simple. It is red herrings, also. Christians are pursuing their goals for the Lord in reaching to our land. They went from one HDB to another. Providing help, services of many mundane things, with an aim to get them saved, get them into Christian community. Another groups oppose it.[may surface soon?]
Say, cell groups, this methods use by Church growth Churches. How many oppose to such a move, and its methods? How many say House groups are not Biblical, today?
We must be able to detect, the constructive criticisms and differentiate destructive criticisms. Otherwise, we would be lulled into the enemy’s camp, lending our voices and support to its destructive agendas. This is most terrible.
frank