Enjoy... But remember
"Don't give in to winning the argument
and losing one of your eternal crowns..."
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John F. MacArthur, Jr. "Does God Still Heal?" Charismatic Chaos. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1992. ISBN 0-310-57570-2. pp. 237-269. Hobart Freeman believed God had healed him of polio. Nonetheless, one of Freeman's legs was so much shorter than the other that he had to wear corrective shoes and still he walked only with great difficulty. Freeman was a pastor. He began his ministry as a Baptist and even wrote a commendable and doctrinally orthodox textbook, An Introduction to the Old Testament Prophets, But in the mid-1960s Freeman's fascination with faith healing moved him into the charismatic movement, and then further and further toward the fringe. He started his own church in Claypool, Indiana, known as Faith Assembly, which grew to more than two thousand members. Meetings were held in a building Freeman called The Glory Barn. Church services were closed to non-members. Freeman and the Faith Assembly congregation utterly disdained medical treatment, believing that modern medicine was an extension of ancient witchcraft and black magic. To submit to a doctor's remedies, Freeman believed, was to expose oneself to demonic influence. Expectant mothers in Freeman's congregation were told that they must give birth at home, with the help of a church-sponsored midwife, rather than go to a hospital delivery room. Obedience to that teaching cost a number of mothers and infants their lives. In fact, over the years, at least ninety church members died as a result of ailments that would have been easily treatable. No one really knows what the actual death toll would be if nationwide figures could be compiled on all who followed Freeman's teaching. After a fifteen-year-old girl whose parents belonged to Faith Assembly died of a medically treatable malady, the parents were convicted of negligent homicide and sentenced to ten years in prison. Freeman himself was charged with aiding and inducing reckless homicide in the case. Shortly afterward, on December 8, 1984, Freeman died of pneumonia and heart failure, complicated by an ulcerated leg. Hobart Freeman's theology did not allow him to acknowledge that polio had left one of his legs disfigured and lame. "I have my healing," is all he would say when anyone pointed out the rather conspicuous inconsistency between his own physical disabilities and his teaching. Ultimately his refusal to acknowledge his obvious infirmities cost him his life. He had dutifully refused treatment for the ailments that were killing him. Medical science could easily have prolonged his life. But in the end, Freeman was the victim of his own teaching. Freeman is not the only so-called faith healer who has succumbed to sickness without finding healing. William Branham, father of the post-World War II healing revival, a man reputed to have been instrumental in some of the most spectacular healings the movement has ever seen, died in 1965 at age 56 after suffering for six days from injuries received in an automobile accident. Though his followers were confident that God would raise him up, the resurrection never happened. A. A. Allen, famed tent evangelist and faith healer, died of sclerosis of the liver in 1967, having secretly struggled with alcoholism for many of the years he was supposedly healing others. Kathryn Kuhlman died of heart failure in 1976. She had battled heart disease for nearly twenty years. Ruth Carter Stapleton, faith-healing sister of former United States President Jimmy Carter, refused medical treatment for cancer because of her belief in faith healing. She died of the disease in 1983. Even John Wimber struggles with chronic heart problems. He begins his book Power Healing with "A Personal Note from John Wimber," which says in part: In October 1985 I was in England for three weeks, teaching at conferences in London, Brighton, and Sheffield. Many people were healed. One was not me. During the previous two years I had suffered minor chest pains every four or five months. I suspected they had something to do with my heart but did nothing about them. Nobody, not even Carol, my wife, knew about my condition. But in England I could no longer hide it from her. On several occasions when we were walking I had to stop abruptly because of the chest pains. I was very tired for most of the trip. I had what doctors later suspected were a series of coronary attacks. When we returned home ... a series of medical tests ... confirmed my worst fears: I had a damaged heart, possibly seriously damaged. Tests indicated that my heart was not functioning properly, a condition complicated and possibly caused by high blood pressure. These problems, combined with my being overweight and overworked, meant I could die at any time. Wimber sought God and says God told him "that in the same way that Abraham waited for his child I was to wait for my healing. In the meantime, he told me to follow my doctor's orders." Since then, Wimber has seen improvements followed by setbacks, but he believes the Lord liw given him reassurance that he will eventually be healed. "I wish I could write that at this time I am completely healed, that I no longer have physical problems. But if I did, it would not be true," Wimber admits. Why is it that so many of the leading advocates of faith healing are themselves in need of healing? Annette Capps, daughter of faith healer Charles Capps and also a faith-healing minister, raised that question in her book, Reverse the Curse in Your Body and Emotions. She wrote, People have stumbled over the fact that the so-called "healing minister" later became ill or died. They say, "I don't understand this. If the power of God came into operation and all those people were healed, why did the evangelist get sick? Why did he or she die?" The reason is because healings that take place in meetings like that are a special manifestation of the Holy Spirit. This is different from using your own faith .... The evangelist who is being used by God in the gifts of healing is still required to use his own faith in the Word of God to receive divine health and divine healing for his own body. Why? Because the gifts of hearings are not manifested for the individual who is ministering. They are for the benefit of the people. . Over the years I have seen various manifestations of the gifts of healing in my own ministry, but I have always had to use my own faith in God's Word for my healing. There have been times that I have been attacked with illness in my body, but as I ministered, many were healed, even though I did not feel well. I had to receive my healing through faith and acting on God's Word. Thus she concludes astonishingly that if a faith healer gets sick it is because his or her personal faith is somehow deficient. Perspectives on faith healing often seem as varied as the number of faith healers. Some say God wants to heal all sickness; others come close to conceding that God's purposes may sometimes be fulfilled in our infirmities. Some equate sickness with sin; others stop short of that but still find it hard to explain why spiritually strong people get sick. Some blame the devil. Some claim to have gifts of healing; others say they have no unusual healing ability they simply are used of God to show people the way of faith. Some use a physical touch or anointing oil; others claim they can "speak forth" healings or simply pray for healing and get results. At one time in his ministry, Oral Roberts declared that God had called him to build a massive hospital that would blend conventional medicine and faith healing. Later, in the face of huge financial losses, he said God was telling him to close it down. I recently visited the site. An enormous sculpture of praying hands stood in front of a monolithic but virtually empty building in the middle of a lot overgrown with weeds. It is a monument to the unfulfilled promises of faith healing. Faith healing and the charismatic movement have grown up together. Charles Fox Parham, father of the contemporary Pentecostal movement, came to the conviction that divine healing is God's will for all true believers. He then developed an entire system of Pentecostal beliefs around that conviction. Aimee Semple McPherson, E. W. Kenyon, William Branham, Kathryn Kuhlman, Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Fred Price, Jerry Savelle, Charles Capps, Norvel Hayes, Robert Tilton, Benny Hinn, and Larry Lea have all headlined healing in their public meetings. Catholic charismatics, such as Father John Bertolucci and Francis MacNutt, have followed suit, seeing the charismatic healing emphasis as a natural extension of Roman Catholic tradition. Third Wave leaders, most notably John Wimber, have made healing a central element in their repertoire. The claims and methods of faith healers range from the eccentric to the grotesque. A few years ago I received in the mail a "miracle prayer cloth" from a faith-healing charismatic leader. With it came this message: Take this special miracle prayer cloth and put it under your pillow and sleep on it tonight. Or you may want to place it on your body or on a loved one. Use it as a release point wherever you hurt. First thing in the morning send it back to me in the green envelope. Do not keep this prayer cloth; return it to me. I will take it, pray over it all night. Miracle power will flow like a river. God has something better for you, a special miracle to meet your needs. Interestingly enough, the sender of the prayer cloth feels he has a biblical support for what he is doing. While Paul was in Ephesus, God performed extraordinary miracles through him "so that handkerchiefs or aprons were even carried from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out" (Acts 19:12). As we have seen, however, Paul and the other apostles had been given unique power. Nothing in the New Testament suggests that anyone else could send out handkerchiefs to work healing miracles. Kenneth Hagin tells of one faith healer he heard of who used a method I have never personally witnessed. He'd always spit on them every single one of them. He'd spit in his hand and rub it on them. That's the way he ministered .... If there was something wrong with your head, he'd spit in his hand and rub it on your forehead. If you had stomach trouble he'd spit in his hand and rub it on your clothes and on your stomach. If you had something wrong with your knee, he'd spit in his hand and rub it on your knee. And all the people would get healed. Other gimmicks not quite that uncouth but every bit as outlandish parade across Christian television daily. Oral Roberts asks for "seed-faith offerings" money donated to him that is in effect a down-payment on your own personal miracle or healing. Robert Tilton regularly devises similar ploys, pledging special healings and financial miracles to people who send him money the larger, more sacrificial the gift, the better the miracle. Pat Robertson peers into the camera, and as if he can see into people's living rooms, describes people who are being healed that very moment. Benny Hinn recently healed fellow faith healer and talk-show host Paul Crouch live on the Trinity Broadcasting Network. After Hinn "released his anointing" on a roomful of people, Crouch stepped forward to testify that he had been miraculously cured of a persistent ringing in the ears he had been suffering from for years. The list of fantastic claims and incredible stories of healings grows at a frantic pace but real evidence of genuine miracles is conspicuously absent. Everywhere I go, I am asked questions about miracles and hearings. Is God restoring these marvellous gifts? What about such-and-such a healing? From all sides come confusion, questions, and contradictions. Three Categories of Spiritual Gifts As we study the Scriptures, we find three categories of spiritual gifts. In Ephesians 4 there is the category of gifted men: apostles, prophets, evangelists, teaching pastors, and teachers. The men themselves are described as gifts from Christ to his church. Second, there are the permanent edifying gifts, including knowledge, wisdom, prophecy (authoritative preaching), teaching, exhortation, faith (or prayer), discernment, showing mercy, giving, administration, and helps (see Rom. 12:3-8; 1 Cor. 12:8-10, 28). Third, there were the temporary sign gifts. These were specific enablements given to certain believers for the purpose of authenticating or confirming God's Word when it was proclaimed in the early church before the Scriptures were written. The temporary sign gifts included prophecy (revelatory prophecy), miracles, hearings, tongues, and interpretation of tongues. The sign gifts had a unique purpose: to give the apostles credentials, that is, to let the people know that these men all spoke the truth of God. Once the Word of God was inscripturated, the sign gifts were no longer needed and they ceased. What Was the Biblical Gift of Miracles? Miracles and healing were both extraordinary sign gifts given to confirm God's revelation. Miracles could include healing, and the cures wrought by people with the healing gift were all miraculous, so in a sense the two gifts overlapped. The great miracle worker was the Lord Jesus Christ himself. Basically, Jesus did three types of miracles: healings (including raising the dead the ultimate healing); casting out demons (which often resulted in healing); and miracles of nature (such as multiplying loaves and fishes, stilling the sea, and walking on water). The gospels are full of Jesus' miracles from each of these categories. John wrote, "There are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books which were written" (John 21:25). All those miracles were signs pointing to the reality of Jesus' claim to be God (see John 2:11; 5:36; 20:30-31; Acts 2:22).Once Christ's work was finished, the apostles had the task of proclaiming and recording his message in Scripture. To authenticate their work, God gave them the ability to do miracles of healing and casting out demons. Nothing in the New Testament indicates that anyone other than Jesus did miracles of nature. The apostles never created food, stilled the sea, or walked on water by themselves. (When Peter walked on water one time Jesus was present and helped him. Nothing suggests he ever repeated the experience.)As we noted in our earlier discussion of miracles (chapter 5), the power to perform miracles was given specifically and exclusively to the apostles and their closest associates. Jesus' simple promise to the twelve is recorded in Matthew 10:1: "Having summoned His twelve disciples, He gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness." As the Spirit was given and the church age began, the apostles continued to manifest those two supernatural gifts. In fact, the apostles were so associated with such miracles that Paul reminded the believers at Corinth that "the signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles" (2 Cor. 12:12).Miracle powers, then, were limited in scope and restricted to apostolic ministry. They were not given to the average Christian (Mark 16:20; Heb. 2:3-4), though some who were commissioned by an apostle shared in the ministry of miraculous gifts (such as Philip; Acts 8:6-7). The astute theologian B. B. Warfield correctly observed that the miraculous gifts were not for the possession of the primitive Christian as such; nor for that matter of the Apostolic Church or the Apostolic age for themselves; they were distinctively the authentication of the Apostles. They were part of the credentials of the apostles as the authoritative agents of God in founding the church. Their function thus confined them to distinctively the Apostolic Church, and they necessarily passed away with it. The Greek word translated "miracles" (dunamis) literally means "power." It is found some 118 times in the New Testament (the verb form another 209 times). It is the word used for the gift of miracles in 1 Corinthians 12:10 in the phrase "the effecting of miracles" (literally, "the energizing of the powerful works"). Dunamis is the same word translated "power" throughout the gospels. It is really the gift of "powers," then. What does that mean?Jesus provided the clearest pattern for understanding it. Throughout his life and ministry, Jesus encountered Satan and defeated him by his dunamis, his power (Luke 4:13-14, 36; 6:17-18). Constantly we find Jesus casting out demons by his "power" (see Matt. 8, 9, 12; Mark 5, 6, 7; Luke 9). In every case Jesus' gift of power was used to combat Satan's kingdom. The gift of "powers," then, is the ability to cast out demons. That is what the apostles did (Acts 19-12) and what Philip did (Acts 8:6-7). So apostolic miracles were limited to healing and casting out demons. Claims by some today to be able to do miracles of nature beyond healing and casting out demons do not have apostolic precedent. Further, they are out of harmony with God's intended purpose for miracles: to confirm new scriptural revelation. Today we deal with evil spirits not by finding someone with the gift of powers to cast them out, but by following the instructions of 2 Corinthians 2:10-11; Ephesians 6:11-18; 2 Timothy 2:25-26; James 4:7; and I Peter 5:7-9. All those verses teach us how we can triumph over Satan. Often the gift of miracles was closely related to healing, since disease could be brought on by satanic or demonic influence. Disease A Universal Problem Since the Fall of man in the garden of Eden, disease has been a terrible reality. For millennia the search for cures to alleviate illness and suffering has consumed humankind. Sickness and death have distressed and ultimately conquered every person since Adam. Only Enoch and Elijah have escaped death (Gen. 5.24; 2 Kings 2:11). Only Jesus has conquered death and risen again in glory. Aside from them and people still living within a normal life span, every one of the millions of people who have ever been born has ultimately perished, either from sickness, injury, or some kind of infirmity. No one not even those who claim gifts of healing is exempt. May I admit something? If I could choose one spiritual gift beyond the ones given me, I would ask for the gift of healing. On innumerable occasions I have wished I could heal. I have stood with weeping parents in a hospital room watching a precious child die of leukemia. I have prayed with a dear friend as inoperable cancer ate at his insides. I have stood by helplessly as a young person fought for life in the intensive care unit; I have seen teenagers crushed in automobile accidents; I have watched people lie comatose while machines kept their vital signs alive; I have watched a close friend weaken and die after an unsuccessful heart transplant; I have seen friends in terrible pain from surgery; I know people who are permanently disabled through sickness and injury; I see babies born with heartbreaking deformities; I have helped people learn to cope with amputations and other tragic losses. And through it all I have wished I could heal people with a word, with a touch, with a command but I cannot. Think of how thrilling and rewarding it would be to have the gift of healing! Think of what it would be like to go into a hospital among the sick and dying and just walk up and down the hall touching people and healing them! It would be wonderful to gather groups of people with the gift of healing and fly them into the great pockets of disease in the world. They could walk through the crowds, healing everyone of cancer, tuberculosis, AIDS, and countless other ailments. Why is it that charismatic healers have not attempted that? Why not assemble all those who say they have gifts of healing and have them go out to minister where the worst needs are? They could start in the hospitals and sanitariums in their own area, and then move beyond to the four corners of the earth. Opportunities to heal the sick are unlimited. And if, as charismatics often claim, such miracles are signs and wonders designed to convince unbelievers, would that kind of ministry not accomplish the purpose best? But strangely, the healers rarely if ever come out of their tents, their tabernacles, or their television studios. They always seem to exercise their gift only in a controlled environment, staged their way, run according to their schedule. Why do we seldom hear of the gift of healing being used in hospital hallways? Why aren't more healers using their gift on the streets in India and Bangladesh? Why aren't they in the leper colonies and AIDS hospices where masses of people are racked by disease? It is not happening. Why? Because those who claim the gift of healing do not really have it. The gift of healing was a temporary sign gift for the authenticating of the Scriptures as the Word of God. Once that authenticity was established, the gift of healing ceased. Scripture teaches that although God is concerned about out bodies, he is infinitely more concerned about out souls (Matt. 10:28). We must realize that even if Christians could heal everyone at will the way Jesus did, the masses still would not believe the gospel. After all Jesus' marvellous hearings, what did the people do? They crucified him. The apostles fared no better. They did miracle after miracle of healing. And what happened? They were jailed, persecuted, and even killed. Salvation does not come through experiencing or seeing physical healing. Salvation comes through hearing and believing the gospel (Rom. 10:17).The gift of healing, however, has been claimed through the centuries by Christians and pagans alike. Historically, the Roman Catholic Church has led the way in claiming the power to heal. They have boasted of healing people with the bones of John the Baptist, or Peter, fragments of the cross, or even vials of Mary's breast milk. Lourdes, a Catholic shrine in France, has supposedly been the site of countless miraculous hearings. Medjugorje, in Yugoslavia, has drawn more than fifteen million people in less than a decade. They come in search of a miracle or healing from an apparition of the Virgin Mary, who supposedly appeared to six children there in 1981. Oriental psychic healers say they can do "bloodless surgery." They wave their hands over afflicted organs and say incantations. Supposedly people are cured. Witch doctors and shamans even claim to raise the dead. Occultists use black magic to do lying wonders in the healing arts. Mary Baker Eddy, founder of Christian Science, claimed to have healed people through telepathy. Satan has always held people in his dominion by means of counterfeit healings. Raphael Gasson, a former spiritualist medium who was converted to Christ, said, "There are many, many Spiritualists today who are endowed with this remarkable gift of power by Satan, and I myself, having been used in this way, can testify to having witnessed miraculous healings taking place at 'healing meetings' in Spiritualism." And from the ranks of Christianity, particularly the Pentecostal and charismatic movements, come continuing claims of the power to heal. Turn on your television or radio. Chances are, whatever time of day or night it is, you can hear somebody promising to heal you from a distance, even if the program is tape delayed. I once spoke to a man who told me his wife had been marvellously healed of cancer by his pastor. "How is your wife doing now?" I asked. "Oh, she is dead, " the man said. "She died?" I asked. "How long after the healing?" He replied, "One year. " Stories like that are common in the movement. Kenneth Hagin tells of a pastor who supposedly was totally healed of deafness in a large healing meeting. "But by the time the meeting was dismissed, he couldn't hear a thing." Hagin writes, "He put his hearing aid back on." Charismatic television programs exhibit a "Can you top this?" mentality toward miracles and hearings. One pastor on a popular charismatic television show explained that his gift of healing worked this way: "In the morning services the Lord tells me what healings are available. The Lord will say 'I've got three cancers available; I've got one bad back; I've got two headache hearings.' I announce that to the congregation and tell them that anyone who comes at night with faith can claim those that are available for that evening." A Closer Look at Healers and Healing Although the methods and activities of those claiming the gift of healing do not match with Scripture, it cannot be denied that things happen at their services. People fall over, "slain in the Spirit." People jump up from wheelchairs, shouting that they are healed. Is there an explanation for those things? You might think a tremendous amount of evidence exists to buttress the claims healers make. Not so. Most of the "evidence" healers cite as their proof cannot be tested. It is conjecture or subjective opinion. One man, William Nolen, a medical doctor but not an evangelical, tested the claims of faith healers. He wrote a book called Healing: A Doctor in Search of a Miracle. He included a section on charismatic healers, with particular reference to Kathryn Kuhlman, whom he studied in detail. Nolen gave this account of a healing service: Finally it was over. There were still long lines of people waiting to get onto the stage and claim their cures, but at five o'clock, with a hymn and final blessing, the show ended. Miss Kuhlman left the stage and the audience left the auditorium. Before going back to talk to Miss Kuhlman I spent a few minutes watching the wheelchair patients leave. All the desperately ill patients who had been in wheelchairs were still in wheelchairs. In fact, the man with the kidney cancer in his spine and hip, the man whom I had helped to the auditorium and who had his borrowed wheelchair brought to the stage and shown to the audience when he had claimed a cure, was now back in the wheelchair. His "cure," even if only a hysterical one, had been extremely short-lived. As I stood in the corridor watching the hopeless cases leave, seeing the tears of the parents as they pushed their crippled children to the elevators, I wished Miss Kuhlman had been with me. She had complained a couple of times during the service of "the responsibility, the enormous responsibility," and of how her "heart aches for those that weren't cured," but I wondered how often she had really looked at them. I wondered whether she sincerely felt that the joy of those "cured" of bursitis and arthritis compensated for the anguish of those left with their withered legs, their imbecilic children, their cancers of the liver. I wondered if she really knew what damage she was doing. I couldn't believe that she did. ................. Here are some aspects of the medical healing process about which some of us know nothing and none of us know enough. To start with the body's ability to heal itself: Kathryn Kuhlman often says, "I don't heal; the Holy Spirit heals through me." I suspect there are two reasons why Miss Kuhlman continually repeats this statement: first, if the patient doesn't improve, the Holy Spirit, not Kathryn Kuhlman, gets the blame; second, she hasn't the foggiest notion of what healing is all about and once she puts the responsibility on the shoulders of the Holy Spirit she can answer, if questioned about her healing powers, "I don't know. The Holy Spirit does it all." Dr. Nolen went on to explain that physicians as well as charismatic healers can often influence a patient and cure symptoms of disease by suggestion, with or without the laying on of hands. Such cures are not miraculous but result from the functioning of the patient's own autonomic nervous system. Nolen also mentioned that all healers faith healers and medical doctors use the power of suggestion to some extent. Nolen admitted that when he gives a person a pill or a shot, he often makes a point of telling the patient that the medicine will make him feel better in twenty-four to forty-eight hours. He gets far better results than if he gave the patient an uncertain message. As Nolen points out, there is a lot of power in an optimistic attitude, especially where functional disorders are concemed. Dr. Nolen explains the important distinction between functional disease and organic disease: A functional disease is one in which a perfectly good organ does not function properly. An organic disease is one in which the organ is diseased, maimed, physically impaired, or even defunct. Infections, heart attacks, gallstones, hernias, slipped discs, cancers of all kinds, broken bones, congenital deformities, [and] lacerations" are all included in the organic disease class. Nolen claims faith healers cannot cure organic diseases. In a magazine article, Nolen made the point that Miss Kuhlman did not understand "psychogenic disease" disease related to the mind. In simple terms, a functional disease might be a sore arm. An organic disease would be a withered arm or no arm at all. A psychogenic disease would be thinking your arm was sore. Nolen wrote,Search the literature, as I have, and you will find no documented cures by healers of gallstones, heart disease, cancer or any other serious organic disease. Certainly, you'll find patients temporarily relieved of their upset stomachs, their chest pains, their breathing problems; and you will find healers, and believers, who will interpret this interruption of symptoms as evidence that the disease is cured. But when you track the patient down and find out what happened later, you always find the "cure" to have been purely symptomatic and transient. The underlying disease remains. When faith healers try to treat serious organic diseases, they often are responsible for untold anguish and unhappiness. Sometimes they keep patients away from effective and possibly lifesaving help. Several years ago, after I preached a message in which I said many of the things contained in this chapter, a young man came up to me and said, "You'll never know what that message meant in my life. I had fallen down some stairs and as a result I injured my head and had terrible headaches. Some people prayed for me and told me I was healed and my headaches went away. But since that time the headaches have come back and I have felt guilty, as if I had not accepted a healing from God. So I've been refusing to go to a doctor, but this morning you've freed me to understand that I must go to a doctor." A physician was able to find organic causes for his headaches and treat them effectively. But What About Allthe Evidence? Undoubtedly, many who have placed their faith in charismatic healers will protest that Dr. Nolen does not know what he's talking about. After all, he is not an evangelical and perhaps not prone to believe in miracles. How objective was his research? Dr. Nolen had Miss Kuhlman herself send him a list of the cancer victims she had seen "cured," and this is what the doctor discovered:I wrote to all the cancer victims on her list eight in all and the only one who offered cooperation was a man who claimed he had been cured of prostatic cancer by Miss Kuhlman. He sent me a complete report of his case. Prostatic cancer is frequently very responsive to hormone therapy; if it spreads, it is also often highly responsive to radiation therapy. This man had had extensive treatment with surgery, radiation and hormones. He had also been "treated" by Kathryn Kuhlman. He chose to attribute his cure or remission, as the case may be to Miss Kuhlman. But anyone who read his report, layman or doctor, would see immediately that it is impossible to tell which kind of treatment had actually done most to prolong his life. If Miss Kuhlman had to rely on his case to prove that the Holy Spirit "cured" cancer through her, she would be in very desperate straits. Dr. Nolen did further follow-up work on eighty-two cases of Kathryn Kuhlman's healings, using names she supplied. Of the eighty-two, only twenty-three responded and were interviewed. Nolen's conclusion at the end of the entire investigation was that not one of the so-called healings was legitimate. Kathryn Kuhlman's lack of medical sophistication is a critical point. I don't believe she is a liar or a charlatan or that she is, consciously, dishonest .... I think she sincerely believes that the thousands of sick people who come to her services and claim cures are, through her ministrations, being cured of organic diseases. I also think and my investigations confirm this that she is wrong. The problem is and I'm sorry this has to be so blunt one of ignorance. Miss Kuhlman doesn't know the difference between psychogenic and organic diseases. Though she uses hypnotic techniques, she doesn't know anything about hypnotism and the power of suggestion. She doesn't know anything about the autonomic nervous system. Or, if she does know something about these things, she has certainly learned to hide her knowledge. There is one other possibility: It may be that Miss Kuhlman doesn't want to learn that her work is not as miraculous as it seems. For this reason she has trained herself to deny, emotionally and intellectually, anything that might threaten the validity of her ministry. More recently, James Randi, a professional magician known as The Amazing Randi, has written a book in which he examines the claims of faith healers. Randi is the man who exposed television evangelist Peter Popoffs fakery in 1986 on "The Tonight Show." (Popoff claimed to be getting "words of knowledge" from God about people in his audience, and his details were incredibly accurate. It turned out he was merely repeating information he received from his wife via a hidden receiver in his car. She read him the information off inquirers cards and crib sheets assembled from informal conversations with people before the services began.) Randi is openly antagonistic to Christianity. Nevertheless, he seems to have done his investigation thoroughly and fairly. He asked scores of faith healers to supply him with "direct, examinable evidence" of true healings." "I have been willing to accept just one case of a miracle cure so that I might say in this book that at least on one occasion a miracle occurred," he wrote. But not one faith healer anywhere gave him a single case of medically confirmed healing that could not be explained as natural convalescence, psychosomatic improvement, or outright fakery. Randi's conclusion? "Reduced to its basics, faith-healing today as it has always been is simply 'magic.' Though the preachers vehemently deny any connection with the practice, their activities meet all the requirements for the definition. All of the elements are present, and the intent is identical." Many faith healers, of course, equivocate about the claims they make. Some even deny that they claim to be able to heal. "I don't heal," they will say. "The Holy Spirit does." But all the showmanship, bravado, and gimmickry deny that. If these people do not claim to heal, why do hopeful people flock to their services? And why do they continually tell fantastic stories of people who were supposedly healed in their meetings? What of the healings we hear about? Are any of them genuine? Perhaps not. Where are the healings of shattered bones? When have we heard of a faith healer taking someone who had been in a car accident and straightening out a lacerated face or a shattered skull? Where are the healings of the terminally ill? Where are the restored limbs for amputees, or former quadriplegics who now function normally? Instead, what we see mostly seem to be imagined illnesses, imaginarilly healed. Not one of today's self-styled healers can produce irrefutable proof of the miracles they claim to have wrought. Many of them are transparently fraudulent, and the healings they display are clearly suspect. Yet thousands of intelligent people continue to go to their services. Why? Because desperation often accompanies disease. Sickness drives people to do frantic and extreme things they normally would not do. People who are ordinarily clear-minded, intelligent, and balanced become irrational. Satan knows that, which is why he said, "Skin for skin! Yes; all that a man has he will give for his life" (Job 2:4). The most desperate, heartbreaking cases involve people who are incurably, organically ill. Others are not really sick at all. They have psychosomatic disorders or minor functional diseases of some kind. Still others are so full of doubts that they have to run from meeting to meeting to have their faith reinforced by seeing what they believe to be miracles. The tragedy is that no good is done for any of these people no one's faith is really strengthened, no one's diseases are really healed. Multitudes go away shattered, disconsolate, feeling either that they have failed God or that he has failed them. There is much confusion, guilt, and heartache among charismatics and non-charismatics because of what they have been told about healing. The agony of disease and illness is only intensified when people feel that they are not healed because of their sin, their lack of faith, or God's indifference to them. They reason that if healing is available and they do not get it, it is either their fault or God's. Thus faith healers have left untold wreckage in their wake. God Does Heal His Way Does God heal? I believe He does. I do not automatically discount all claims of supernatural healings just because some are false. But I am convinced that dramatic, miraculous, immediate intervention by God is quite rare and never dependent on some supposedly gifted person who acts as an agent of healing. Genuine hearings may come as a result of prayer and most often involve simple natural processes. Other times, God speeds up the recovery mechanisms and restores a sick person to health in a way that medicine cannot explain. Sometimes he overrules a medical prognosis and allows someone to recover from a normally debilitating disease. Healings like that come in response to prayer and the sovereign will of God and can happen at any time. But the gift of healing, the ability to heal others, special anointings for healing ministry, healings that can be "claimed," and other typical faith-healing techniques have no biblical sanction in the post-apostolic era.Certainly God heals. He heals in answer to prayer and in order to reveal his glory. But there is a vast difference between the healings done in the days of Jesus and his disciples and the "hearings" being offered today on television, on the radio, through direct-mail gimmicks, and from some pulpits across the land. A look at Scripture shows the distinction starkly. How Did Jesus Heal? To make a comparison between the gift of healing being claimed today and what the Bible teaches, we simply have to go back and look at Jesus' ministry. Our Lord set the pattern for the apostolic gifts, and he did a massive amount of healing. In Jesus' day the world was full of disease. Medical science was crude and limited. There were more incurable diseases than we have now. Plagues could wipe out entire cities. Jesus healed disease to demonstrate his deity. How did he do it? Scripture reveals six noteworthy characteristics of Jesus' healing ministry: First, Jesus healed with a word or a touch. Matthew 8 relates that as Jesus was entering Capernaum, a centurion came to Jesus and asked him to help his servant, who was lying paralyzed at his home and suffering great pain (vv. 6- 7). Jesus told the centurion he would come and heal the servant, but the centurion protested, pointing out that if Jesus would just say the word, his servant could be healed (v. 8).The Lord was amazed at the centurion's faith, particularly because he was a Roman soldier, and not of the house of Israel. Jesus said to the centurion, "'Go your way; let it be done to you as you have believed.' And the servant was healed that very hour" (v. 13). When Jesus fed the five thousand (John 6), he had spent most of the day healing people in the crowd who were sick. Scripture does not tell us how many were healed it could have been thousands. But whatever the number, Jesus healed them with a word. There were no theatrics, no special environment. Jesus also healed with a touch. For example, in Mark 5:25-34 we find the account of a woman with chronic bleeding who was healed simply by touching Jesus' robe. Second, Jesus healed instantly. The centurion's servant was healed "that very hour" (Matt. 8:13). The woman with the bleeding problem was healed "immediately" (Mark 5:29). Jesus healed ten lepers instantaneously right on the road (Luke 17:14). He touched another man with leprosy and "immediately the leprosy departed from him" (Luke 5:13). The crippled man at the pool of Bethesda "immediately became well," took up his pallet, and began to walk (John 5:9). Even the man born blind, who had to go and wash his eyes, was healed instantly though for his own purposes, Jesus accomplished that miracle in two distinct stages (John 9:1-7). The healing was no less instantaneous.People often say, "I've been healed, and now I'm getting better." Jesus never did "progressive" healing. If Jesus had not healed instantly, there would have been no miraculous element sufficient to demonstrate his deity. His critics could easily have said the healing was just a natural process. Third, Jesus healed totally . In Luke 4, Jesus left the synagogue and came to Simon Peter's home. Peter's mother- in-law was there, suffering from a high fever. Possibly she was dying. Jesus stood over her, "rebuked the fever," and immediately she was well (v. 39). In fact, she then she got up and began to wait on them. There was no recuperation period. Jesus did not advise her to sip a little honey in hot water and take it easy for a few weeks. Nor did he goad her to "claim the healing by faith" despite unrelenting symptoms. She was immediately well and knew it. Her healing was instantaneous and it was total. That was the only kind of healing Jesus ever did.Fourth, Jesus healed everyone. Unlike healers today, Jesus did not leave long lines of disappointed people who had to return home in their wheelchairs. He did not have healing services or programs that ended at a certain time because of airline or television schedules. Luke 4:40 tells us, "And while the sun was setting, all who had any sick with various diseases brought them to Him; and laying His hands on every one of them, He was healing them" (emphasis added). Luke 9:11 records a similar example.Fifth, Jesus healed organic disease. Jesus did not go up and down Palestine healing lower back pain, heart palpitations, headaches, and other invisible ailments. He healed the most obvious kinds of organic disease crippled legs, withered hands, blind eyes, palsy all healings that were undeniably miraculous.Sixth, Jesus raised the dead. Luke 7:11-16 tells us that while Jesus was at a city called Nain, he came upon a funeral procession as a widow went out to bury her only son. Jesus stopped the procession, touched the coffin, and said, "Young man, I say to you, arise!" and the dead man sat up and began to speak! He also raised a synagogue ruler's daughter in Mark 5:22-24, 35-43.People who tout the gift of healing today do not spend much time in funeral parlors, funeral processions, or cemeteries. The reason is obvious. Some charismatics, as we have already noted, claim that people today do sometimes come back from the dead. Those cases, however, are nothing like the biblical examples. It is one thing to revive someone whose vital signs stopped on a surgeon's table. It is entirely another matter to come out of the grave four days after being buried (see John 11) or to climb out of one's casket at the funeral (see Luke 7). Those are resurrections that cannot be challenged. Charismatics who make such claims today do so on hearsay and with scant evidence. They are guilty of trivializing our Lord's miraculous works. Why is it that the only miracles ever done on television are the kind that involve no visible evidence? Note, by the way, that Jesus did virtually all his healing and raising the dead in public often before vast crowds of people. His gift of healing was an authenticating gift. He used it to confirm his claims that he was the Son of God in a way that also displayed his divine compassion. Dispelling demons and diseases was Christ's way of proving that he was God in human flesh. John's gospel clearly demonstrates that truth. John said all the signs and miracles Jesus wrought validated his deity (John 20:30-31). How Did the Apostles Heal? As we have seen, Jesus set the standard for the healing gift. Someone might argue that healers today operate at a different level of power. After all, they are not God. But how did the apostles and others use the gifts of healing that were bestowed on them by Christ? Christ gave the gift of healing to all twelve apostles (Luke 9:1-2). Later, Jesus extended the gift to seventy others whom he sent out two-by-two to preach the gospel and heal the sick (Luke 10:1-9). Did anyone else in the New Testament have the ability to heal? Yes, there were a few close companions of the apostles who also received the gift, namely Barnabas (Acts 15:12), Philip (8:7), and Stephen (6:8). But we never see the gift being used at random in the churches. It is a gift associated only with Christ, the twelve (plus Paul), the seventy, and some who were intimate co-workers with the apostles. The third chapter of Acts clearly illustrates how the gift of healing helped the apostles proclaim their message. Peter and John were going into the temple to pray when a lame man asked them for alms. Peter replied by saying he had no money, but what he did have he would give the man. Then he said, "In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene-walk!" (Acts 3:6). Immediately the man leaped to his feet and began walking and praising God. Word passed quickly, and soon a huge crowd had gathered. Everyone knew of the lame man who had been begging at the temple gate for years. Peter seized the opportunity and addressed the crowd, telling them they should not marvel at what they had seen. What had been done had not been through the power of Peter or John but through the power of Jesus Christ, the One whom the people had just crucified. It is crucial to understand the impact of what Peter said and the effect of the healing miracle on his audience. Peter was talking to Jewish people who had been looking eagerly for their Messiah all their lives. Suppose Peter had walked in and simply told them, "Jesus Christ, the one you crucified a few months ago he was your Messiah. Believe in Him." We cannot begin to imagine how shocking and repulsive that message would have been to a first-century Jew. It would have been utterly unthinkable to him that his Messiah would be crucified like a common criminal. A typical Jew believed the Messiah was to come in power and glory to sweep away the bondage of the hated Romans, who held Palestine in their grip. Had Peter not performed the miracle of healing the lame man, he would have had little or no audience. As it was, many were shaken and pierced to their hearts. According to Acts 4:4, "Many of those who had heard the message believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand." At Pentecost the church was born. A new era had come, and God gave miraculous abilities to his apostles to help them proclaim their message. In fact, we can see that the same six characteristics of the miracles of healing done by Jesus Christ also characterized the apostles' healing.The apostles healed with a word or a touch. In Acts 9:32-35 Peter healed a man named Aeneas, who had been bedridden eight years because he was paralyzed. All Peter said was, "Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; arise, and make your bed" and immediately Aeneas was healed (v. 34).In Acts 28 we see Paul on the island of Malta, and he healed with a touch. Publius, one of the leading men on Malta, was hosting Paul and his companions. Publius's father was lying in bed with a bad case of fever and dysentery. Paul went in to see him, prayed, laid his hands on him, and healed him (v. 8). The apostles healed instantly. The beggar at the temple gate came immediately to his feet and started leaping, walking, and praising God (Acts 3:2-8). There was no need for any therapy, no extra rehabilitation. The man was cured at once after a lifetime of lameness.The apostles healed totally. We see this in the account of the lame man in the third chapter of Acts, and also in the healing of Aeneas in chapter 9. Acts 9.34 is most insightful when it says, "Jesus Christ maketh thee whole" (KJV). Like every healing Jesus did, every healing of the apostles was complete. There was no progression, no talk of recurring symptoms or slow improvement.The apostles were able to heal anyone. Acts 5:12-16 reports that the apostles did many signs and wonders, and the people held them in high esteem. They carried the sick out into the streets and laid them on pallets so that when Peter came by, his shadow might fall on them. In addition, people from surrounding cities brought those who were sick to be healed and "they were all being healed" (Acts 5:16).In Acts 28:9 we learn that after Paul healed Publius's father, "the rest of the people on the island who had diseases were coming to him and getting cured." No one was left out. The apostles healed organic disease. They did not deal in functional, symptomatic, or psychosomatic problems. The man at the temple gate was probably in his forties, crippled from birth. Publius's father had dysentery, an infectious organic disease.Finally, the apostles raised the dead. Acts 9:36-42 tells how Peter brought Dorcas (Tabitha) back to life. Note especially verse 42: "It was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord." Again we see a miracle giving credence and impact to the gospel message. In Acts 20:9-12 a young man named Eutychus died in a fall, and Paul brought him back to life.Despite all the claims being made today, no one is exhibiting those six traits in any healing ministry. Let me suggest a final point: According to Scripture, those who possessed miraculous gifts could use their gifts at will. Contemporary healers do not heal at will. They cannot. They do not have the biblical gift of healing. They are forced to dodge the difficulty by saying, "It's not my doing; it's the Lord's." Thus God or the person seeking healing is blamed for the repeated failures. The Gift of Healing Is Gone, but the Lord Continues to Heal The gift of healing was one of the miraculous sign gifts given to help the apostolic community confirm the authority of the gospel message in the early years of the church. Once the Word of God was complete, the signs ceased. Miraculous signs were no longer needed. The apostles used healing only as a powerful sign to convince people of the validity of the gospel message. In Philippians 2:25-27 Paul mentioned his good friend Epaphroditus, who had been very sick. Paul had previously displayed the gift of healing. Why did he not simply heal Epaphroditus? Perhaps the gift was no longer operational. Or perhaps Paul simply refused to pervert the gift by using it for his own ends. Either way, healing Epaphroditus was beyond the purpose of the gift of healing. The gift was not given to keep Christians healthy. It was to be a sign to unbelievers to convince them that the gospel was divine truth.We find a similar case in 2 Timothy 4:20, where Paul mentioned that he had left Trophimus sick at Miletus. Why should Paul leave one of his good Christian friends sick! Why didn't he heal him? Because that was not the purpose of the healing gift. (See also 1 Tim. 5:23 and 2 Cor. 12:7.) Healing was a miraculous sign gift to be used for special purposes. It was not intended as a permanent way to keep the Christian community in perfect health. Yet today most charismatics teach that God wants every Christian well. If that is true, why does God allow Christians to get sick in the first place? In a world where believers are subject to the consequences of sin, why should we assume that suffering is excluded? If every Christian were well and healthy, if perfect health were a guaranteed benefit of the atonement, millions of people would be stampeding to get saved but for the wrong reason. God wants people to come to him in repentance for sin, and for his glory, not because they see him as a panacea for their physical and temporal ills.What Is the Explanation for Charismatic Healings? Charismatics often respond to biblical and theological reasoning by appealing to experience. They plead, "But incredible things are happening; how do you explain it?" I hear the same refrain constantly from charismatic friends: "I know this lady whose son who had cancer and " "My friend's mother was so bent over with arthritis she couldn't move and " Bottomline Reply to Charismatics! In reply I say: "Since no charismatic healer can come up with genuinely verifiable cases of instant healing involving organic disease; since no charismatic healer heals everyone who comes for healing and hundreds go away from their services as sick or as crippled as when they came; since no charismatic healer raises the dead; since the Word of God needs no confirmation outside itself and is sufficient to show the way of salvation; since charismatic hearings are based on a questionable theology of the atonement and salvation; since charismatic writers and teachers appear to disallow God his own purposes in allowing people to be sick; since charismatic healers seem to need their own special environment; since the evidence they bring forth to prove healings is often weak, unsupported, and over-exaggerated; since charismatics are not known for going into hospitals to heal though there are plenty of faithful people in hospitals; since most instances of healings by charismatics can be explained in ways other than God's unquestioned supernatural intervention; since charismatics get sick and die like everyone else; since so much confusion and contradiction surrounds what is happening et me ask the return question: How do you explain it? It certainly is not the biblical gift of healing!" Healings are occurring today. But the biblical gift of healing is not present. God heals whom he wills, when he wills, and there have been many times when my human wisdom might want to second-guess him. Like any pastor, I have seen the most tragic, unexplainable, and seemingly needless cases of suffering involving committed Christians. I have prayed earnestly with families for the recovery of loved ones only to see the answer come back no. Charismatic pastors if they are honest will admit they have the same experiences.But what is the typical explanation charismatic teachers, healers, and leaders give for the multitudes who are not healed? "They didn't have enough faith." That kind of reasoning is neither kind nor accurate. Why Do Christians Get Sick? We should not neglect an essential question: Why do Christians get sick? There are several reasons. Some sickness comes from God . In Exodus 4: 11 God told Moses: "Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" Stated that simply and directly, the idea sounds repulsive. Would a loving God want anyone to suffer? Why would he make a man dumb, deaf, or blind? Yet again and again in Scripture we see that there is far more to God's sovereign plan than our finite minds can comprehend. God made the disabled and infirm. Babies are born every day with defects. Many children grow up with congenital deformities. Some people have illnesses that last for years. While it is unexplainable according to our human logic, it is all God's plan and a gift of God's love.Some sickness comes from Satan. Luke 13:11-13 is the account of how Jesus healed a woman who "for eighteen years had had a sickness caused by a spirit; and she was bent double, and could not straighten up at all." When Jesus saw her he said, "Woman, you are freed from your sickness."God may let Satan cause someone to be sick for his own reasons. The classic biblical example is Job (see Job 1). Some sickness is chastening for sin. In the twelfth chapter of Numbers we see Miriam getting leprosy because of disobedience to the Lord. And then we see her being healed because of her repentance. In Deuteronomy 28:20-22 God warned the Israelites that he would smite them with pestilence if they sinned. In 2 Kings 5 Gehazi, the servant of Elisha, gets leprosy because of his greed.The psalmist wrote, "Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep Thy word" (Ps. 119:67). When one is sick, every area of life should be checked for unconfessed sin. If there is unconfessed sin, there is a need to repent and experience God's forgiveness. Be careful in counselling others who are sick, however. Inquiries or accusations about sin in the life of someone else should not be made without careful, prayerful self-examination. It is far too easy to abuse this biblical principle and falsely accuse someone of sin (cf. John 9:1-3). It may well be that in some cases a person is sick because of sin, and God is chastening him or her. But is that always the problem? By no means. And suggesting that someone's sickness is necessarily related to personal sin is as unfeeling and cruel as telling people they are not healed because they do not have enough faith. We need to avoid the error of Job's friends (cf. Job 42:7-8). Has God Promised to Heal All Who Have Faith? Charismatics who claim that God wants every believer well are clearly in error. Still, we can be equally positive that God has promised that he does heal. He does not promise he will always heal, but the Christian has a right to look to heaven for relief during any illness. There are at least three reasons for this: God heals because of his person. In Exodus 15:26 God told the Israelites, "I, the Lord, am your healer." The words for Lord here are Yahweh Ropeca, which means "the Lord who heals thee." And so the Christian has a right to look to God in times of illness.God heals because of his promise. God has promised that whatever we ask in his name and in faith will be done (Matt. 21:22; John 14:13-14; 16:24; 1 John 5:14). That means our requests must be according to his will. If we ask for healing and it is according to his will, God will heal us.God heals because of his pattern. We see the pattern of God's mercy and grace in Jesus. So if you want to know how God feels about human suffering and disease, look at Jesus. He went everywhere healing. He could have confirmed his claim to be God in other ways, but he chose the compassionate means of alleviating pain and suffering "in order that what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, 'He Himself took our infirmities, and carried away our diseases"' (Matt. 8:17). As we pointed out in our discussion of 1 Peter 2:24 (see chapter 4), that does not mean healing for every sickness in this age is guaranteed as part of the atonement. But it confirms the healing pattern in Christ's work on out behalf and assures us of ultimate, eternal deliverance from the sicknesses and infirmities of this present world. There will be no sickness or death in our eternal home.Should Christians Go to Doctors? While the Bible teaches that God definitely heals, Scripture also gives ample evidence that Christians should go to doctors. Isaiah chapter 38 relates the story of how King Hezekiah was deathly ill. The king wept bitterly and beseeched the Lord in prayer for healing. God granted his request, but note how the healing took place: "Now Isaiah had said, 'Let them take a cake of figs, and apply it to the boil, that he may recover"' (Isa. 38:21). Why was a poultice needed if God had granted the healing? God was laying down a principle here. When you get sick, do two things: pray for healing and go to a doctor.Jesus confirmed that same idea in Matthew 9:12 when he said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician but those who are ill." Granted, Jesus was speaking of the problem of sin, but he was using an analogy that everyone understood. Sick people need a doctor. By those words, our Lord affirmed that medical treatment is consistent with the will of God. We observed that many came to be healed after Paul miraculously healed Publius's father in Acts 28. The Greek word used of Paul's healing of Publius's father in verse 8 is the regular term for healing, while the one used in verse 9 for everyone else's healing is a word for medical cures. We get the word therapeutic from it. It may well have been that Paul healed miraculously, and his companion Luke, who was a physician (Col. 4:14), healed medically. What a team they would have made!The principle is clear: When we get sick, we should pray; we should seek help from competent doctors; and we should wholeheartedly rest in the perfect will of God. After all, adversity is for our good in time (James 1: 2-4; 1 Peter 5: 10) and for our glory in eternity (Rom. 8:18; 1 Peter 1:6-7). It is helpful to remember that because of the Fall, we are all ultimately going to die (except for the elect who are alive when Christ returns). Every Christian's hope should be that his death would, as Jesus told Peter, "glorify God."In illness, as in everything else, the Christian should keep a biblical perspective and seek to glorify God. God heals in his own time, by his own means, for his own glory, and according to his own sovereign will and pleasure. Would we have it any other way? |
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Your informations flawed. by frankielee77@hotmail.com, 2001, Aug 29
Kuhlman's death documented in Jamie Buckingham, Daughter of Destiny (Plainfield, N.J.: Logos, 1976), 282 ff. (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Aug 30
This book is a must read for all... by saved-by-grace, 2001, Sep 09
That's all nice and sweet but unfortunately, only nice and sweet. (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 09
"Nice & sweet" facts about Dr Nolen's errors? Anyway u're entitled to yr own opinion. by saved-by-grace, 2001, Sep 09
The most unlearned man of the centuries!!!John F M? by frankielee77@hotmail.com, 2001, Aug 29
Answers to your questions. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Aug 30
All those queries and distortions were refuted long ago!Here's more. by frankielee77@hotmail.com, 2001, Aug 29
Here's some more,for greater light. by frankielee77@hotmail.com, 2001, Aug 30
On Isaiah by Christopher Yip, 2001, Aug 30
One Point only.Jesus will heal you from now. by frankielee77@hotmail.com, 2001, Aug 30
"Refuted"? You mean "rancour", don't you? by Christopher Yip, 2001, Aug 30
I SIGH alot,not rancour. by FrankieLee, 2001, Aug 30
I oblige You. by FrankieLee, 2001, Aug 31
And I am STILL waiting ... by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 01
Please be open and I assume you are reasonable.1. by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 02
But unfortunately, you are not. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 02
Superficial or deep,at a glance? by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 02
Frank and Chris, pls read, thankyou by Emmanuel, 2001, Sep 04
Nope. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 04
Good Reasoning, Chris, would like to hear from Frank too! eom by Emmanuel, 2001, Sep 05
Hi Chris, I have a question for people who cessationists by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 05
On Cessationism by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 06
In so saying.... by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 06
Wrong way by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 06
Please correct me if I have not yet figured it out by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 09
Response by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 09
Hi Chris by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 09
You still have a few strawman arguments which I rebutted but you are getting there. (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 12
Ahhh I see your point now and I wonder whether Frankie can share his by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 12
Save-by-grace gave good response. by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 12
Ok maybe to avoid another Theological debate between you and Chris by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 12
Die hard fans,of the fallacies! by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 13
Hi Frankie by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 13
Gifts of Healing? by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 14
ONE point ,for clarity first. by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 14
Please get a copy of A Diary of Signs & Wonders by Maria Woodworth-Etter. That book speaks volume. eom by saved-by-grace, 2001, Sep 14
From a cessationist named Frankie. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 13
Frankielee....this is utter nonsense! (But USA is top priority now) eom by saved-by-grace, 2001, Sep 13
Pls do not blame Frankie or Chris, if you wish to blame you can blame me instead by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 13
explanation by saved-by-grace, 2001, Sep 14
Glad that you think so! Now, go look at Frankie's responses to mine. Familiar? (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 13
Jack Deere knocked down too many fallacies. by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 14
One point to illustrate,Jack Deere says... by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 14
blah blah blah ... in the end, BLANK! Rebut this, Frank. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 15
Chris,it is time you surrender,and be silent. by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 16
Frank, go enrol yourself for study and stop misleading people with your ill-logic and unbiblical teachings. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 16
... until you BLUR? by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 15
I retract for the record of Truths. by Frank, 2001, Oct 07
This old cessation's views were very wrong. by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 07
I'd rather be submissive then to demand. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 09
Submissives in proper perspectives. by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 09
Continue,for right perspectives. by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 09
We can glorify God by our Faith in Him. by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 09
Response by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 04
Let us exercise Sound reasonings. by FrankieLee, 2001, Sep 02
Betol Lah!!! Very good insight! by SK, 2001, Sep 02
Be warned...!!!! by John Doe 666, 2001, Sep 03
Are you're suggesting all the past healings crusades are of the Devil? n/t by SA, 2001, Sep 03
John Doe 666 is quite extreme when it comes down to End Times Apostacy, which is why he is quoting these verses by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 03
Just think. Can Mr '666' be contradicting himself? by SA, 2001, Sep 04
I agree with you tt the Anti-Christ would not oppose the Devil. I just think he is more a messenger of End Time Apostacy by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 04
Yah lor, just read what he's saying most of the time lah! Hehehe!!! by SA, 2001, Sep 04
some insights by John Doe 666, 2001, Sep 04
On this note, I fully agree with you. by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 04
Never read the Bible carefully...no Christ in the Old Testament. n/t by SA, 2001, Sep 04
Hi SA, do you really believe there is no Christ in OT? by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 04
You're wrong by SA, 2001, Sep 06
oh actually i do know that Emmanuel comes from OT. ά still wondering what we disagreeing over? by Royston Ong, 2001, Sep 06
Let's reason out properly with the help of the Holy Spirit. by SA, 2001, Sep 04
some answer by John Doe 666, 2001, Sep 05
some replies by SA, 2001, Sep 05
some more by SA, 2001, Sep 06
Simple Question For Mr Six Six Six by Emmanuel, 2001, Sep 05
Untitled by John Doe 666, 2001, Sep 07
The woman is UK??? How interesting!! And what is the man-child? n/t. by Interested , 2001, Sep 07
Hmm...You got a point there, let me do some research....eom by Emmanuel, 2001, Sep 04
Quote Book of Zephaniah 2:1-3 , a plea for repentance, Joe (eom) by Emmanuel, 2001, Sep 05
Maybe they should be worshipping Kuhlman instead! ;-) (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Sep 04
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