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Welcome
Enjoy... But remember
"Don't give in to winning the argument
and losing one of your eternal crowns..."
God bless you...
Enjoy... But remember
"Don't give in to winning the argument
and losing one of your eternal crowns..."
God bless you...
Frank, go enrol yourself for study and stop misleading people with your ill-logic and unbiblical teachings. 
We need changed hearts, not miracles. (Wahshing)
Why many kept calling myJesus,a false healer,today? 
It's time to come back from "Experience" to Scriptures! (Christopher Yip)
All those queries and distortions were refuted long ago!Here's more. 
"Refuted"? You mean "rancour", don't you? (Christopher Yip)
I oblige You. (FrankieLee)
And I am STILL waiting ... (Christopher Yip)
Please be open and I assume you are reasonable.1. (FrankieLee)
But unfortunately, you are not. (Christopher Yip)
Superficial or deep,at a glance? (FrankieLee)
Frank and Chris, pls read, thankyou (Emmanuel)
Nope. (Christopher Yip)
Hi Chris, I have a question for people who cessationists (Royston Ong)
On Cessationism (Christopher Yip)
In so saying.... (Royston Ong)
Wrong way (Christopher Yip)
Please correct me if I have not yet figured it out (Royston Ong)
Response (Christopher Yip)
Save-by-grace gave good response. (FrankieLee)
From a cessationist named Frankie. (Christopher Yip)
Jack Deere knocked down too many fallacies. (FrankieLee)
One point to illustrate,Jack Deere says... (FrankieLee)
blah blah blah ... in the end, BLANK! Rebut this, Frank. (Christopher Yip)
Chris,it is time you surrender,and be silent. (FrankieLee)
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Frank,
You need to study logic and theology. You really must put yourself through the course. You are a danger to young Christians. If the next generation of Christians are going to be like you, we are in dire straits. Frank:Acts 6;3 seven men whom we may appoint over this business.Is it Stephen and Philip are the only other persons to whom miracles are attributed?Luke,author's of Act did not mention the exploits of the other 5 men,so the other 5 men did not do miracles?Must Luke write one by one,out of them,so that,it can prove the disciples doing miracles were a norm? ME: Why can't it be limited only to Stephen and Philip? Why? This is an argument from silence, a fallacy, Frank. If you don't even know this basic logical fallacy, you should be ashamed. Why is it ok for you to assume that other men also perform signs and wonders even though Luke was silent about other men's exploits, but so very very wrong for me to assume that they didn't since Luke records no such instances? What makes YOUR ASSUMPTION, YOUR ARGUMENT FROM SILENCE, more probable and better than mine? Is it because it is Frankie Lee's thesis? Miracles were common in only three periods: Moses and Joshua, Elijah and Elisha, and Christ and the apostles. While Christ did it by virtue of His deity, the rest were gifted. Are we also to conclude that Daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Jonah, Habakkuk, Micah, Samuel, Obadiah, Joel, Malachi, etc. all performed miracles too? Please find me a scholar who can substantiate this, Frank. YOU: So much flawed analysis,yet cannot see.Just copy from others,and care not to divide the word of God properly. ME: And WHERE is YOUR divide? NOTHING, Frank. All you have is noise. You know only to say flaw, flaw, flaw BUT DON'T KNOW HOW TO PROVE IT! Irritating, Frank. Chris:In our study of the book of Acts, we have no evidence that the ability to perform miracles was common in the early church. Frank:Mark 16;20...the Lord working with them and confirming the """"word"""" through the accompanying signs.Prior to Acts,...earlier,Lord Jesus already given power to the seventy people to heal the sick,to cast our demons,to preach the good news. Mark already told us,in his accounts that the Lord had wrought accompanying signs as they preach EVery where. They preached every where...Can Peter preach everywhere? THEY. Is the ability to perform miracles was common in the early church? Frank says,"In my study of the whole Bible,the ability to perform miracles was common in the early church.". ME: CALLING FRANK, CALLING FRANK, COME BACK FROM OUTER SPACE!! When did the church begin, Frank? It's after Pentecost. I said that the ability to perform miracles was uncommon IN THE EARLY CHURCH! NOT IN THE TIME OF JESUS. You can't even get your TIMELINE right, how to divide the Word properly???? Are gifts operational during Jesus' time? Wake up, Frank. Gifts came with the coming of the Holy Spirit, AFTER PENTECOST. We are talking about whether the sign GIFTS were common in the early CHURCH, AFTER Jesus' ascension, AFTER the coming of the Holy Spirit. We must base our arguments about gifts on passages that refer to gifts, not simply to miracles and healings. For goodness' sake, Frank, GO AND STUDY!! Chris:No, the exceptions here .... Frank:Is Stephen and Philip were the exceptions to the performing of miracles and signs?NO NO NO NO NO. Blind like bats.Write all nonsense,yet still think one is right.pathetic. ME: You are the one that is really PATHETIC to the core. WHERE is your evidence that there are others besides Philip and Stephen who performed miracles and signs? WHERE, Frank, WHERE? In the bible? Where? Outside the bible? Where? Warfield's Counterfeit Miracles traced the phenomenon of sign gifts throughout history and the conclusion? They simply weren't common in the Church!! YOU, on the other hand, just cry flaw, flaw, flaw, flaw. YOU ARE NONSENSE, Frank. You not only spout nonsense, YOU ARE NONSENSE. Frank:This silly logic flies around so foolishly for so many years,and it is still being accepted by people. What are signs for?.... ME: Hot air as usual. YOU: Jesus promised us the Holy Ghost,and the power,and tongues speaking.The phenomena happen to 120 believers,not just the 12 apostles!You shall received power after the Holy Ghost come upon you.Does it sound like only the apostles would received the power?Is not the promise for your children,for you? ME: Please read your bible, Frank. Paul SPECIFICALLY says that the signs and wonders were signs of the apostle - this remains the testimony of Scripture. "The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles". (2 Cor 12:12) If doing miracles had been the common experience of ordinary Christians, it would be foolish for Paul to cite miracles as proof of his apostleship. Because miracles were unique to the apostles, Paul could use his experience with signs and wonders as proof of his authority (cf. Rom 15:18-20; Heb 2:3-4). The exceptions of Stephen and Philip do not change this norm since they too were eyewitnesses to Jesus' resurrection and their miracles were qualitatively equalled to those of the 12 apostles. As for the 120, you are even more ridiculous when you apply Jesus' promise of the Holy Spirit's coming to them. Your lack of precision actually speaks also of your ignorance, Frank. Jesus promised the coming of the Holy Spirit to the 12, not the 120, in John 14:16; 16:7 and 20:21-22. At the ascension, it was the 11 who were present and not the 120. Luke 24:33 indicates that it was the 11 who were led by Jesus to Mt Olives ("as far as Bethany"). Furthermore, Acts 1:11 has the angels addressing the witnesses to Jesus' ascension as "men of Galilee". All the 12 apostles were from Galilee except for Judas who was from Judea and of course dead and not present at the ascension. It would be far-fetched to imagine all 120 were from Galilee. Martha, for instance, one of the "women" (Acts 1:4), was from Bethany. The power of the Holy Spirit in terms of the sign gifts were meant only to the apostles for their foundational work in building the church. Today, the "power" that we receive when we become CHristians is not the sign gifts but the power of regeneration and to live sanctified lives. YOU: The reception of such power is to assist us in being witnesses for Christ.The signs gifts of speaking in tongues is one of the promise fulfiled,in them and in us,today,21 centuries. ME: If this unique once-for-all event at Pentecost is meant to be normative for all Christians, Frank, where then is the "rushing mighty wind" and the "cloven tongues" (Acts 2:2, 2:3) in every conversion? Do you see that at every re-birth of the soul? Again, this shows that the CHARISMATIC CLAIMS DO NOT SYNC WITH SCRIPTURES, BE IT SIGN GIFTS OR TONGUES! Again, Frank, go and study the bible. YOU: Has the Spiritual Gifts cease or not cease?It is like questioning whether the Holy Spirt had been taken away from us or is He still around with us today? ME: See how blur you are, Frank? You can't even appreciate and understand the very fundamental difference between us! Royston, although new to this exchange, has a much much steeper learning curve than you! ONCE AGAIN, FRANK, LISTEN GOOD AND HARD: Cessationists do not say that God no longer performs miracles or healings today, neither do we say that the Holy Spirit has been taken away. EVIDENCE OF MIRACLES AND HEALINGS ARE N O T NECESSARILY EVIDENCE OF SIGN GIFTS!! It boils down to the definition of a GIFT, a SIGN GIFT. Do the gifts of miracles and healing mean simply praying for miracles and healing in faith? Then ALL Christians have the gift, Frank, and this is RIDICULOUS. Paul says that there are diverse gifts for diverse people but Frankie Lee says no, Paul is wrong, EVERY CHRISTIAN has the gifts of miracles and healing because they can pray in faith for miracles and healing and that is the definition of the two gifts. Please, I beg you, go and study, Frank! The apostolic gifts of miracles and healing were under the control of the apostles and were exercised at will and on demand. Go read the bible, Frank! YOU: Let this be a finality to all those blur. The Spirit of the Lord is here,and He gave gifts to each one of us,so as to build up the body of Christ.Paul aleady listed down for us 9 distinct gifts for our recognitions and understanding. ME: Yet another silly assertion that pays no attention to chronology or context. Paul does not address CHristians of ALL ages when he talks about gifts. Sign gifts are mentioned in the following places: - AD 56: 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 - AD 57: Romans 12 - AD 60: Ephesians 4 - AD 60-67: Ephesians - 2 Timothy Note the listings: - the number of gifts listed decreased with time, the "vanishing" already started in first century - later period: no tongues, no healings, no exorcism, no raising of dead - last two lists have no sign gifts - last reference to use of sign gift was AD 58 (Acts 28:9), two years before end of Acts (v 30) - beginning with Paul's imprisonment (AD60-67), Paul could not heal even his needed helpers such as Timothy, Epaphroditus, and Trophimus. What is the trend telling us, Frank? That the gifts are all declining, starting with the sign gifts. It will ALL cease when Christ comes again. If you can argue from silence that other men in Acts have the same miraculous powers as the apostles, I believe I can argue from the above which is also argument from silence but a silence that is soundblaster louder than yours that the sign gifts have ceased in general. YOU: Unless,those false teachers would desire to self fulfiled prophecies of destructions,"""Denying the Lord,and bringing heresies into the Church,which so much of it are here to be seen by all..."I rest my case.eom. Oh please, do rest. You are truly a danger. Your lack of precision and sound exegesis and your apparent love and pride in being such a person are alarming. In a nutshell, you, very much in the tradition of the Pharisees, and false faith healers simply "say, and do not" (Matt 23:3). Christopher
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