some replies

HEADER FOR Expressions

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some replies

Forum: Theological Expressions
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We need changed hearts, not miracles. (Wahshing)
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Why many kept calling myJesus,a false healer,today?
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It's time to come back from "Experience" to Scriptures! (Christopher Yip)
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All those queries and distortions were refuted long ago!Here's more.
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"Refuted"? You mean "rancour", don't you? (Christopher Yip)
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I oblige You. (FrankieLee)
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And I am STILL waiting ... (Christopher Yip)
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Please be open and I assume you are reasonable.1. (FrankieLee)
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Let us exercise Sound reasonings. (FrankieLee)
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Betol Lah!!! Very good insight! (SK)
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Be warned...!!!! (John Doe 666)
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Are you're suggesting all the past healings crusades are of the Devil? n/t (SA)
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some insights (John Doe 666)
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Let's reason out properly with the help of the Holy Spirit. (SA)
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some answer (John Doe 666)
Date: 2001, Sep 05
From: SA SA

Hi John Doe, “Did I say in 'collaboration' with Satan??? Collaoration requires agreement between 2 parties. What I am saying is that EVEN though Satan works his Evil stuff, GOD will turn it around and work through it. ( Like in Jobs case and many others, and the reason is God's promises in Romans 8:28 )” Alright, I misunderstood you. You’re probably saying that the devil can do his works in the midst of a healing crusade even when the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is being preached. I don’t deny that that is absolutely impossible. If the enemy can find a way into any service, he will, be it a normal church Sunday service or a revival meeting. Can put people to sleep in service or stop them from hearing from the Spirit during the pastor's sermon or soothe their conscience everything is fine remaining in status quo etc not just cause confusion by giving counterfeits to what is of the Holy Spirit in revival meetings. You can’t deny that too can you? But just as we should be vigilant in our walk in the Lord for the enemy prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour, it does not necessitates our having to stop seeking the Lord for more of His Presence and power to heal the sick, deliver the demonised and most important of all to save the lost. The KEY is do we know we have the power to drive out the devil in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, wherever and whenever he tried to manifest his works to confuse the redeemed. Do we know WHOM we trust? May sound over self-confident to some but I'm just stating what God has promised us in the Bible.(Luke 10:18-24 about the demonic powers being subjected to us when we confront them in evangelistic meetings or outreach and see also what happen to Peter in facing an attack from satan but Jesus interceded for him and told him to strengthen the others when he turned back to the Lord again, Luke 22:31-32) “Do you know for sure when one person is following the Lord fully ? Don't decieve yourself. If we knew that, there would be no cults today or any deviations today. So whats the point: We don't know for sure, except we see the fruit, but even the fruit we see are contitioned by our past and personality. You imply that revival seekers are not so dumb to be tricked by Satan's ploy ? My friend, do you know that anyone can be tricked by Satan ?doesn't matter if he/she is a great person of God or not. Once we are not led by the Spirit , we will fall. If they are sick of the status quo, can they do anyhing they wish? Does being stagnant in the church not better than letting the evil one decieve many? And, how do you measure being stagnant anyway ? No growth in numbers ?? In that case, It is not being stagnant in GOD's EYES. How do we know if God is not refining the Church without growth in numbers..??? The crux of the matter is if we wait and follow His Word and leading of The Spirit of God in the way HE wants us to go and not to panic and do our own thing in ATTEMPTING to bring revival........ Man cannot bring about a revival without God initiating and achiving it.” I don't mean we won’t fail Him at all in this lifetime even when the church is moving into the revivals. Just read the Old Testament to see how many of God’s servants make it without failures in their lives? Abraham lied, Noah got drunk, Moses lost his temper, Samuel failed in parenting, Elijah wants to end his life because of Jezebel and the depraved nation he preached to and had his ministry cut short, etc. Only very few has no Bible record of any failure in their walk with the Lord. Not even David the one the Lord says was after His own heart. But pls don’t take this to mean we charismatics condone every murder or adultery committed. The Lord knows how frail we are. But He chooses Whoever He will to do His work. What about the 12 disciples of Jesus…they have no character flaws at all while walking with Jesus in real life daily for 3 years? Revivals often began in the heart of the Lord. Before we see any signs of renewal leading to revivals and then to outreach evangelism of the lost outside the Kingdom of God, the Holy Spirit usually place His burdens in the hearts of God’s people or His servants. It is not necessarily that God’s servants are GREEDY to see their ministries expand or to compete with each other. Some may in later years of their ministries (how many do we really hear about who are such except for those wellknown?)but many faithful unknown ministers do not. Else they'll be wellknown overnight because bad news spread faster than good. Also the Holy Spirit will not have been mightily pouring out His gifts of healing miracles in the places where genuine revivals are taking place. Perhaps you should take a look at the Revivals first hand (Go to Kansas City eg for the Smithton Revival for a visit, instead of reasonings from bad reports you’ve heard so far. Then you can say whether the devil is really deceiving the people in actual revival scenarios or not rather than allowing fear of being deceived by the devil to brand all revivals happening now as leading to worldwide apostasy in the Church. Btw the size of a church has got nothing to do with the spiritual state of a church. Just read the book of Acts. In one day, whether the disciples are ready for leadership or not, 3000 got saved. And daily numbers are being added. Next in Acts 4, 5,000 men not counting women & children. Is God not aware of the ‘risks’ of fast church growth right from the first day? Who told them that the size of the church has to grow slowly for better quality Of disciples? But they did have the power and wisdom of the Holy Spirit and the apostolic teachings to see to their church growth problems. Read on further to see how they took care of the needs of the widows, they withstood persecution in prayer and depending on the Lord to see them through whether in or out of prison, how the first missionaries were sent out during fasting & prayer, how key people were evangelised whose residences later became the centres for further outreach in a new city, place etc. The fact is the witness for Christ continued inspite of being ill-equipped or in unfavourable circumstances in men's eyes. “Yes Apostasy started way back. But not the kind of Apostasy that we are going to see in the end times. You say that those who fail to see what is of God will miss the real revival. I don't agree. When the real revival comes No one can close their eyes, because it will be right before thier eyes. Everyone will know. When the true revival comes, there will be NO questions asked. It will be impossible for anyone to even ask a question." You're right about this. But how do true revival comes about if we have plenty of doubts of what the Holy Spirit is doing in some revived churches nowadays? "happens in a church, by default is of GOD ......I think that is very deceptive. Do you mean to say that all that is going in a church today is of God just because we pray it to be so? Far from it. I think you should think about it a bit more.” No I didn’t attribute everything that happens in a church to be of God all the time. But what are we who are aware of the errors or wrongdoings, doing about it that’s more important than a witch hunt for the false servants of God. Have we prayed for our ministers of the Gospel when they are in the front line and the first targets of Satan? Surely his main target is for the generals not the soldiers on the ground. He knows the strategy of warfare better than our prayer warriors. In a war you don't fight those which do not inflict much damage to your territory. Can probably let the soldiers have a jolly good time fighting one another or the generals instead. Will reply you on your last paragraph tomorrow regarding healing.