Details Must Fit and Spiritualization

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Details Must Fit and Spiritualization

Forum: Theological Expressions
Re:

Fulfillment of Prophecy on 11 Sep 2001 ? New York City is Babylon the Great ? (Grace_Messenger)
Re:

My two cents worth of thought (Joe)
Date: 2001, Sep 23
From: Grace_Messenger Grace_Messenger

Question: Is New York City like the rich trading, great Babylon city literally? Joe: Certainly yes. Almost every nation in the world today are trading partner of America or would like to trade with her. New Stock Exchange in Wall Street is leading the world stock markets; especially those countries that have direct trades with US. Singapore’s economy, for an example, is highly dependable on America. When US has flu, we will have fever. Grace Messenger: New York City activities may be similar to Babylon but they not the same as the details described in Rev 18:122-16. //////////////////////// Question: How long has New York City been in existence? Before John's time? Joe: New York City which represented by her stature of Liberty (Woman) was probably what John saw in his vision. New York City represented America and in her was found the Church of Satan, sorcery and witchcraft, occult, let alone, law that permits abortion of babies. All these are but spiritual inheritances from the ancient Babylon. Surely, America has become “the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.” Figuratively speaking, America today has corrupted herself and betrayed her founding godly father. She has become the base for Homosexuality, Lesbianism and pornography. She is the Mother of prostitutes “with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.” USA, the Mystery Babylon the Great is leading the world as she sits on the beast that has 7 heads and ten horns (Europe) which will soon replace her position to lead the world once New York City is destroyed. The collapse of WTC is but only the beginning the worst to come. Grace Messenger: Babylon existed before John's wrote Revelation. John wrote Revelation in the first century AD. Christopher Columbus "discovered" America in 1492 AD. See URL. http://www1.minn.net/~keithp/index.htm The first Pilgrim landed in the United Status of America, at Plymouth in 1620 AD. See URLhttp://www.mayflowerfamilies.com/colonial_life/pilgrims.htm Since the modern New York City cannot possibly comes into existence before Christopher Columbus and the first Pilgrim came to the United States of America, New York City cannot be built before John wrote Revelation. //////////////////////////// Question: Did New York City go after the blood of the prophets and the saints? Joe: Figuratively speaking, yes. She has betrayed her founding father and guilty of the saints that who gave their lives to the nation by labouring in the works of God and by blessing the city with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Grace Messenger: "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." (Rev 18:24). "Was found the blood" and "slain" do not refer to figuratively to betrayal but to actual taking of lives, the bodies are separated from the souls and the spirits. //////////////// Questions: Is New York City destroyed in "one hour" on 11 September 2001? Is New York "found no more at all," totally destroyed? Answer to both questions is definitely no. New York City is still standing. So far only the twin 110 storeys World Trade Centre Tower and the 47 storeys World Trade Centre Tower have been destroyed. Even if all the seven World Trade Centre Towers were destroyed, they do not constitute the whole of New York City. Joe: The collapse of WTC is only the wake-up call to the destruction of New York City in the days to come. It is a token of what we will see in the future in a short time span. Grace Messenger: The Bible is clear that the Babylon City is destroyed in "one hour" and "found no more at all." The Bible did not say Babylon is merely destroy partially as a wake-up call. It does not say the destruction is merely a token of what is to come. /////////// Question: Did the ten kings involve in the airplane attack against New York City on 11 September 2001? Joe: The destruction of New York City is through terrorism, not by Wars, and the enemy’s purpose is to undermine her world economy power. However, US President Bush declared it the “Act of War”. When America’s economy collapses, the ten kings (Europe) will offer their Euro as substitute to US$. New Money or None is what we will face. Grace Messenger: The Bible did not say the ten kings merely undermine Babylon world economy power but that the ten kings "shall make her desolate and naked, and eat her flesh, and burn her in with fire." (Rev 17:16) It is a total destruction of Babylon with fire. ////////// Question: Are we living in the tribulation period or in the dispensation of the grace of God? Joe: We are living in the end of the dispensation of the grace of God. The worst is yet to be! Joe Grace Messenger: We not are not living in the tribulation period but in the dispensation of the grace of God. According to Bible timeline, the city of Babylon will be destroyed in the tribulation period and not during the dispensation of the grace of God. It does not say at "the end of the dispensation of the grace of God." The Bible did not specify how long the dispensation of the grace of God will last. The dispensation of grace already lasted for close of 2,000 years. No men can tell how long more it will last because God simply did not reveal it in the Bible. We should therefore not speculate that it will last a further 1 day, 1 year, 1 decade, 1 century, 1 millennium or any other length of time. /////////////////// Grace Messenger conclusion: Though there may be some similarities between New York City and the Babylon city described in Revelation 17 and 18 but there are not the same. We must not spiritualized the descriptions in the Bible and make them fit the current event. If we spiritualize verses to give them some secondary meanings of our own fancy speculation to them when the primary meanings are clear, then we are rejecting the plain words of God. God means what he said and we should believe his plain words. We should take each word of Bible and give it the same exact basic meaning as it would have in the customary and normal usage in the Bible. If we spiritualize the verses, then how can we know the truth? If another person (maybe even a respected pastor, Bible teacher, theologian, etc) come along and claim that the Holy Spirit illuminated him and he gives a different fanciful explanation of the verses, then how are we to know that he is correct or wrong ? Spiritualizing of verses will leave the authority of Biblical interpretation to the mind of the interpreter. By accepting spiritualizing method of interpretation as legitimate, then how can one conclude that Babylon of Rev 17 and 18 is or is not Amsterdam, Berlin, Jerusalem, London, New York City, Paris, Peking, Singapore or Tokyo? Therefore the only sane and reasonable way to understanding the word of God is to take it literally as it is written unless the context demands that it should be taken figuratively. Taking the word this way is a safe way of checking on the imagination of man. It will also lead to a discovery of many precious truths in the word of God that will liberate a student of the word from the false doctrines of men. For prophecy to be considered fulfil, the events occur must fit those details (and not the general sense only) described in the word of God.