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The righteous acts of the saints 

Forum: Messageboard
Re: be acquainted with the teaching about righteousness (Keith)
Date: 2001, Oct 20
From: Ivan Ivan

Hi, In your dissertation on the doctrine of righteousness, have you conveniently left out the verse in Rev 19:8 And to her (Bride of Christ) it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the RIGHTEOUS ACTS OF THE SAINTS. In fact, if you can have an overview of the whole Bible, you will find that righteousness is much sought after by God as evidenced by his dealings with Sodom and Gomorrah. Because their sin is very grave and the outcry against them was great, God has to destroy them. The Bible also categorically said in Isa 64:6 that all our righteousness are like filthy rags which are useless and abominable in His sight. This is talking about the self-righteousness of men. In Rom 3:10, it says that "there is none righteous, no, not one." But God in His goodness and mercy has provided for mankind "the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world" and all the benefits that come with the offerings of the Lamb (1 Cor 1:30). We also receive the righteousness of God in Christ according to 2 Cor 5:21. Praise the Lord! Now, the question before us is this: As Christians are clothed with Jesus Righteousness and approved and accepted by God in their righteous deeds, what do you think constitute the RIGHTEOUS ACTS OF THE SAINTS? Any comments? In Christ,

to: "The righteous acts of the saints"

Messages Inline: Outline:

1. Untitled by Keith, 2001, Oct 20

(_ Can the saints be cut off from the vine? i'm trying to find some answers to some questions only. eom by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 20

1. temporal discipline yes. eternal damnation, no. by Keith, 2001, Oct 20

2. A good question indeed. by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 20

1. take away = remove, not discipline by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 20

1. Th problem lies with the Greek word AIRO by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 20

2. Revelation of John 15 by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 20

1. What is branch? by True Light, 2001, Oct 21

1. Please hold that thot by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 21

2. Hi TL, new insights to John 15. This time round from Watchman Nee by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

3. pruning vs disciplining by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 20

1. Concerning Bruce's explanation by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 21

1. The question: lift up or take away? by Ivan, 2001, Oct 21

1. Untitled by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 21

2. In-Depth Study by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 21

4. You are right by True Light, 2001, Oct 21

1. Hey True Light by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 21

1. Yes, I think we share the same view by True Light, 2001, Oct 21

2. Hi SBG, by Interested , 2001, Oct 22

1. Well... by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 22

1. If you want to understand why I reject Trinity, you must read up more on Oneness. by True Light, 2001, Oct 23

(_ Dear True Light by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 23

1. Hey True Light! - Very amusing, indeed. by Interested , 2001, Oct 23

1. I also got no problem. I think the one who got problem is you. EOM by True Light, 2001, Oct 23

1. May be, but Oneness Pentecostalism is not one of them and never will be. n/t by Interested , 2001, Oct 23

2. Arianism are called Christian Universalism in modern time by True Light, 2001, Oct 25

1. Hi True Light, don't know what you are talking about. by Interested , 2001, Oct 25

(_ Anyway, if you are interested, check for yourself regarding Christian Universalism. EOM by True Light, 2001, Oct 25

(_ Thanks, but am not interested. n/t by Interested , 2001, Oct 25

2. We have debated before but no direct answer given by True Light, 2001, Oct 23

2. You don't understand because you never make an effort to read. by True Light, 2001, Oct 23

3. Keep bearing fruit and more fruit by Ivan, 2001, Oct 20

1. Matt 15 cannot go with John 15 by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 20

1. Royston, please do not put words into my posting:" I say saints cannot be uprooted or thrown away or take away" eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 20

(_ Am I? by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 20

(_ The tares(pseudo-saints) and the wheat (saints) by Ivan, 2001, Oct 21

1. Definition of Saint by True Light, 2001, Oct 21

1. Issue might be bigger than this, TL by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 21

1. To Royston by True Light, 2001, Oct 21

(_ Hello TL by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 22

(_ Looks like we differ by True Light, 2001, Oct 22

1. That was what I thought initially as well by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 22

1. Thanks Chris, you have helped me locate that verse I had quoted here... 1 Cor 3:12-15 by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 22

2. True Light...you are correct on this by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 22

1. It is not about Universalism.... by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 22

1. Neither is it about easy believism...eom by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 22

(_ With now a clearer understanding... by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

(_ I apologize by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 24

2. More warnings and strengthenings by Ivan, 2001, Oct 22

1. I do not know whether it is because your England is weak or what, but by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 22

(_ I really am wondering whether your eyes are in good balance by Ivan, 2001, Oct 22

(_ You are like a court jester trying to get attention through the wrong approach by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

(_ RO, you need an English tutor badly............ by Ivan, 2001, Oct 23

(_ Making grammatical mistakes is a small thing, but making misquotes is A SERIOUS PROBLEM eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

(_ Are you guilty of misquoting Scriptures to suit your theology, RO? by Ivan, 2001, Oct 23

1. My stand comes from Evangelicals, as clearly stated by Interested. Do your research pls eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

2. I have a suggestion to end this dispute between us by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

1. Will you change your stand should my Pastor agree with my postings? eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 23

1. Just to inform you. My Senior Pastor recently came in here, and has attested me. Therefore.. by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 06

(_ It is not enough just to depend on the sole judgment of your Senior Pastor. eom. by Ivan, 2001, Nov 06

(_ Stop consoling yourself ... by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 06

2. Who am I? by Ivan, 2001, Oct 23

2. All true (as opposed to merely professing) believers are Saints by Keith, 2001, Oct 21

1. Keith, what is your understanding of professing Christians? Please elaborate. eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 21

1. my definition of professing christians by Keith, 2001, Oct 22

(_ Thanks, Keith. Do you know why they want to stay this way and where can you find them?eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 22

(_ Not for me to speculate by Keith, 2001, Oct 22

1. On professing Christians by Ivan, 2001, Oct 22

1. Hi Keith, what do you understand by "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"? eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 22

(_ just like peter who cried out for mercy when Jesus rewarded him with nets-breaking, boats-sinking loads of fishes by Keith, 2001, Oct 24

1. Again I fully agree with your statement, but I wonder whether Ivan understands. Hmmm eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

2. So, what is the argument? That we do not have to work out our salvation.Is this your stand and RO? eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

2. Keith, it seems that Ivan has not demarcated the difference between salvation by Christ and salvation by works eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 22

2. Hi Keith by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 21

1. Yes, Royston, we are in perfect agreement here. Grace be with you too :-) eom by Keith, 2001, Oct 22

3. Regarding the thief on the cross by True Light, 2001, Oct 21

3. A good tree bears good fruit by Ivan, 2001, Oct 21

1. You are right by True Light, 2001, Oct 21

2. You are again misquoting by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 21

1. Please do your research before you jump into conclusion by Ivan, 2001, Oct 21

(_ Now I know you are truly blind to what the Word of God is saying to the Church by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 21

(_ We will close for now till you have done your research. eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 21

2. Amendment: Should read as (Christlikeness). eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 20

3. Back-peddle by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 20

4. On John 15:2 by True Light, 2001, Oct 21

1. From various translations by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 21

1. Every translation says you're wrong. eom by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 21

1. That is on the account of the issue of "take away"...in so doing, you are choosing to ignore the other details. by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 21

2. Thank you for all the translations. by True Light, 2001, Oct 21

1. hi TL, am well aware which section you would have issues with by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 21

1. OK! eom by True Light, 2001, Oct 22

2. Let's not suffer long over the entangled weeds with the wheat. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 22

1. "He who endures(remain steadfast)till the end shall be saved." by True Light, 2001, Oct 23

(_ Indeed, the truth shall set us free! by Ivan, 2001, Oct 23

3. You are right on track, Royston. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 22

1. Let's settle it once and for all by Ivan, 2001, Oct 22

1. Like I say... by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 22

2. Are the Corinthians saved? by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 23

1. Yes, and so there is hope for their counterparts of this gentration. n/t. by Interested , 2001, Oct 23

2. On Corinthian Christians by Ivan, 2001, Oct 23

1. Response by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 24

(_ Let the Holy Spirit guide us into all truths. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

2. Reading one's theology into the scriptures = eisegesis by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 23

1. You mean yourself? :-) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 23

1. You say it yourself. by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 23

1. Read what you have just quoted in context with John 15:1-6 by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

1. Hi Royston by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 23

1. Hi SBG, an understanding of Modern Christianity vs Evangelical stand by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

2. the better term for followers is disciples. For we are all called to make disciples of men by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

1. explanation by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 24

1. Hi SBG, I thought I am the only one out of job, how come you are so free, can reply at this time?eom by True Light, 2001, Oct 24

1. True Light...you're not the only one jobless. by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 24

2. That depends on how you read the word "of" by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

3. On warning... by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

1. We are not taught that salvation is by works as i have already explained to you. by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 24

1. By proliferating a stand that you MUST work out your salvation WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING is already by works by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

2. I have given my answer. eom by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

4. salvation and falling away by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

1. Agree? by True Light, 2001, Oct 24

1. Not entirely agree, but will choose to take a break for a while, maybe wiser to let you guys spend time thinking abt it by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

(_ Do you consider 2nd generation christian or sunday christian a SAINT? by True Light, 2001, Oct 24

(_ 2nd generation Christians and Sunday Christians are SAINTS and will enter into the Kingdom of God. eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

(_ Last question. by True Light, 2001, Oct 25

(_ As recorded in the accounts of Luke 12:46, these will be ASSIGNED a place with the UNBELIEVERS eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 25

(_ & according to Luke 12:47-48, 2nd generation Christians & Sunday Christians will be punished, but nothing on banishment by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 25

2. It is best we separate from here... by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 24

1. Dear SBG by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 25

(_ Remember Apostle Paul and his dealings with the Corinthians.......... by Ivan, 2001, Oct 25

(_ Untitled by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 25

(_ I am just showing concern.....I put forth the hard but balanced messages.......knowing that I may be miscontrued. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 25

5. Be reconciled by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

2. I don't think you believe "once saved always saved" by True Light, 2001, Oct 23

1. Haha! Ok, Wesley's "once saved, always saved" is different from Calvin's "once saved, always saved" by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

1. Ha!Ha! a tough question for you. by True Light, 2001, Oct 24

1. Not quite there yet from the Evangelical viewpoint by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

1. Get your facts right first by True Light, 2001, Oct 24

1. Why do you need so many straw man? by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 24

1. Hi Chris, I'm saying most of them, not all. EOM by True Light, 2001, Oct 24

(_ Can you support that assertion? by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 25

(_ My friends by True Light, 2001, Oct 25

(_ Find out Calvinism for yourself then. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 26

2. Yes! Man's theology will be shaken too! eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

3. All your statements indicate the lack of understanding to God's all-encompassing love for His people by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

2. I do not want to be drag into your arguments for the sake of arguments because it is a bottomless pit. eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

2. A false sense of security by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

1. One has to understand the life story of Wesley to understand his views by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

(_ It is purely God at work alone......... by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

3. Hey Royston, On Calvin's Temporary Faith by Interested , 2001, Oct 26

1. Haha Am not aware of this. Thanks for bringing it up by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 26

1. Check this out by Eveline How, 2001, Oct 27

1. Thanks Eveline by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 27

2. Reply to Royston, by Interested , 2001, Oct 27

1. Oh i see what you mean now by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 27

2. Look like you also agree that some saints will lose their salvation. EOM by True Light, 2001, Oct 27

2. Appreciate if you could answer the questions I raise ... by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 24

1. I have already stated...i rest my case. Bye! eom by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 24

2. Let's put it to rest! by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

1. Some points to raise by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

1. I am Biblical! I am not an evangelical! eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

2. One more question only... by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 24

1. The works of Christ must point men to God......... by Ivan, 2001, Oct 25

1. Thanks for quoting Jhn 9:3,4. by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 25

(_ Thanks for cautioning me, SBG. eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 25

2. In Christ's love, we seek to endeavour to know the truth by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 25

1. In partnership with God in terms of "working out one's salvation" by Ivan, 2001, Oct 25

(_ Wesleyan partnership is not the same as your idea of partnership, mind u eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 30

3. If you are part of Christ........ by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

1. Correction; my posting on "on working out one's salvation" should read as "....working out your salvation." eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 24

2. You are still not getting it by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 25

1. I have already made myself clear re fruit and works.eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 25

4. Keep up the good work, Royston! by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 25

1. I have already made it clear in my postings.eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 25

2. Thanks Chris, but I pray that it is time for a rotation of guards, need Holy Spirit to strengthen me by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 25

1. God just gave me a revelation of Phil 2:12-18!!!!! by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 25

2. Royston, it's the statement about salvation and fruit that I highlighted. (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 26

3. To Christopher and Keith, by True Light, 2001, Oct 25

1. Which is the verse referred to? "fallen away" (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 26

1. Hi Chris, forget it lah! we have stopped this topic. EOM by True Light, 2001, Oct 27

2. once truly born again in the Spirit, cannot be un-born. once truly saved Christ, cannot be unsaved. by Keith, 2001, Oct 27

1. Hebrew 6:4-8 are a good verses to expound. EOM by True Light, 2001, Oct 27

1. Honestly, could we stop this... by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 27

2. how i read Hebrews 6:4-6 by Keith, 2001, Oct 27

1. On Hebrews 6:4-6 by Ivan, 2001, Oct 27

(_ This is interesting...TL ...Ü ...have you changed your stand on Tree of Knowledge of good & evil? by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 27

1. ooops wrong person, sorry TL. thought Ivan's posting was yours. eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 27

2. To Royston by True Light, 2001, Oct 28

1. Thanks for your comments by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 28

2. I like your last sentence the most, because I agree with it by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 27

2. Not so fast! by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 25

1. I dont think we can exhaust all matters re fruit; we are looking at the central theme: Christlikeness and His works. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 25

1. One question.. by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 25

(_ Do you know the answer? Are we going to have different views again? eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 25

(_ Certainly I know the answer by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 25

2. His eternal security has clauses lah by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 25

3. A "true Christian" by True Light, 2001, Oct 25

1. The Corinthians again! by Christopher Yip, 2001, Oct 26

(_ The question by True Light, 2001, Oct 26

(_ keith's answer. and a few questions. by Keith, 2001, Oct 27

(_ Strongly believe in second scenario. by True Light, 2001, Oct 27

1. no need to reject "once saved always saved" doctrine by Keith, 2001, Oct 27

1. Hi Keith, thanks for sharing so much, it warms my heart by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 27

2. All right, I will put it as I don't hold OSAS teaching by True Light, 2001, Oct 28

2. Hey True Light by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 27

1. we are always straying, but God still loves us by Keith, 2001, Oct 27

1. Do you want to be accountable for the blood of fallen believers if you keep on saying the unconditional love of God?eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 27

1. Do you want to be accountable for degrading God's capability and grace? by Eveline How, 2001, Oct 27

(_ Do you want to defile the Grace of God by misrepresenting it? ......... by Ivan, 2001, Oct 27

(_ The Apostle Paul answers you by Eveline How, 2001, Oct 29

(_ Not so simple as you may "mis-think " by Ivan, 2001, Oct 29

(_ No so-called Calvinist by Eveline How, 2001, Oct 29

(_ I am not a historian; I dont subscribe to Man's theology; but I am Biblical by Ivan, 2001, Oct 30

(_ Ahh... so now I'm supposed to be proud eh? by Eveline How, 2001, Oct 30

(_ Yup Eveline, agree with you, pointless arguing with him. eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 31

2. Thanks for yr explanation.... by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 28

3. On James 4:4 by Ivan, 2001, Oct 28

1. On the issue of the prodigal son by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 28

1. On "all that I have is yours" by Ivan, 2001, Oct 28

2. What does the younger son represent, sinner or fallen saint?. EOM by True Light, 2001, Oct 29

1. It might be both groups, dear TL. :) by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 29

2. does knowing that God always love you make you want to sin against Him? by Keith, 2001, Oct 27

1. On John Calvin's works by Ivan, 2001, Oct 27

3. Thanks for the clarification by True Light, 2001, Oct 28

1. It all depends on our understanding of who Christ is in the first place by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 28

2. What is "In Christ" by True Light, 2001, Oct 23

2. The saints and the sinners by Ivan, 2001, Oct 21

3. You know TL... by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

4. Do we lose our salvation if we fail to bear fruit - suggested answers by Keith, 2001, Oct 20

1. Thanks Keith for your posting article by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 20

1. continue to be a blessing by Keith, 2001, Oct 22

(_ In times like these, only the revelation of the Holy Spirit can clear such doubts by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 22

(_ explanation... by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 22

(_ Thanks for your explanation, but I was not asking a qn bcos i do not understand, i was expounding truths, by using qn. by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 22

(_ 2nd generation Christians or Sunday Christians by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 23

(_ You really wish to know the answer about John Wesley's stand? by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 23

(_ Reason why i ask by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 23

1. Saved by relation with Jesus, not by religion of God by Keith, 2001, Oct 23

1. Fully Agreed Keith. SBG, hope this clarifies your doubts unless you still wish to talk abt Wesley? eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 24

2. Just like to share a little on Wesley's preaching before and after Aldersgate by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 29

1. You're right about this... by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 29

(_ So I pray ... by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 29

(_ Thank you for your prayer... by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 29

1. Great to hear that the Holy Spirit has brought you enlightenment in the mysteries of the Word of God! by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 30

2. Oh maybe it is abt time for you to share what you have learnt to correct ppl like Ivan by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 30

1. RO, your message needs to be corrected! eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 30

(_ I find it amusing... by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 30

(_ It is a living faith! by Ivan, 2001, Oct 31

(_ Honestly, it is already clear to me that you do not understand the difference by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 01

(_ So, let the Holy Spirit open your eyes to see the wondrous things from His word. eom. by Ivan, 2001, Nov 01

3. Hi SBG by Ivan, 2001, Oct 30

1. Hi Ivan, by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 30

1. No need to listen to him by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 30

1. I think you have to re-think by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 30

1. He has already shared his view on Phil 2:12-13 SBG, and tt is why I disagree with his stand by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 30

2. My response by Ivan, 2001, Oct 30

1. Now let me ask you....what does enemies of the cross of Christ mean to you? duh by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 30

2. Seeing ourselves as God sees us will change our behaviour by Ivan, 2001, Oct 30

1. I beg your pardon??? What are u trying to say here??? Read yr reply carefully before you post, WILL YOU? eom by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 31

1. Hi SBG, what happen? I'm confused! Can you share what is this all about? Just concern. EOM by True Light, 2001, Nov 01

2. I think i know who you are...may God have mercy on yr insuniations!!! by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 31

1. Untitled by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 31

(_ Sorry for the short note earlier by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 01

3. Sorry, please change "you" to "we" (correction).eom. by Ivan, 2001, Oct 31

1. Continue yr as usual namecallings then! Good bye!!! by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 31

2. Seeing the beauty of Christ in His saints by Ivan, 2001, Oct 22

1. Again Ivan has not yet understood what we mean about salvation through Christ by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 22

2. PROFESSING CHRISTIANS WILL MAKE FOR A "PAPER" CHURCH AND NOT A POWER CHURCH. eom by Ivan, 2001, Oct 22

1. What talk you? Using jargons like "paper" church and power church without even defining it eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 22

5. Thank all of you for the replies... by saved-by-grace, 2001, Oct 20

to: "The righteous acts of the saints"

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