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Re:

Getting into the "Secrets of the Vine" (Ivan)
Re:

Salvation & works
Re:

Thanks LBS, do you want to contribute and form your own conclusion,if any? eom. (Ivan)
Date: 2001, Oct 29
From: LBS

Hi Ivan, Defending sound doctrines stands out key in 1Tim&2Tim; appallingly, people are departing from sound doctrines: 2Tim 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 1Tim1:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan. 2Tim 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; .. (this took place by the time Paul wrote 2Tim) I disagree with your understanding of 1Tim 2:19; let’s look at it in context: 2 Tim 2: 15-19 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. v. 16 false doctrines were going around and they were leading to more ungodliness v. 18 says there were people teaching that the resurrection is past already; what impact did that have on godliness: well, you believers have missed the resurrection, what are you going to do with your lives now, wouldn’t you be stupid if you don’t make use of the lives on earth to have much fun and pleasures as you want v. 19 What must believers do? Stick to what God said and promised to you as believers, stick to what you know is sound doctrines concerning your security in God (The Lord knoweth them that are his) and do not compromise yourself with ungodliness as believers ( And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity). . You wrote about Rom 6:21,22 and Jn 14:30 and concluded that “We need to be imputed with Christ's righteousness, for our works to be accepted by God”. I agree with this. You wrote: “This leads us to Jn 15:1-8, our Lord Jesus says that if anyone is not in Christ he does not bear fruit and is to be taken away, be withered and thrown away and be burned (Jn 15:2,6). If anyone is part of Christ, he will and must bear fruit, the Vinedresser cleanses and repeatedly prunes to make him bear more fruit and much fruit. “ Before I answer this type of verses, let me have your answers to following verses that prove “once saved, always saved”. Please confront these verses directly (just the way you would like to answer you verses to the point) only then can you convince people like me that “once saved, always saved” is a false doctrine: Rom4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. How can we ever ever be counted righteous? This verse say .. by faith – by simply believing what God tells you to believe: “faith in his blood” Rom 3:25. What will happen to everyone that is counted righteous by faith? Rom 9: 30 …whom he justified [counted righteous], them he also glorified [rendered glorious with a new incorruptible body]… Whom He justified, them He will also glorified. If you are justified by faith, you will get a new resurrected body. Got that? Has works any role to play in salvation? Rom 11:6 … if it be of works, then is it no more grace: If you say, bearing fruits/works has any role to play in salvation, then you can’t say salvation is by grace. But Eph 2:8 says “For by grace are ye saved …”