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Hi Truelight, Do me a favour first 

Forum: Messageboard
Re: Getting into the "Secrets of the Vine" (Ivan)
Re: Salvation & works
Re: Thanks LBS, do you want to contribute and form your own conclusion,if any? eom. (Ivan)
Re: Responding
Date: 2001, Oct 30
From: LBS

Hi Truelight, LBS : Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. How can we ever ever be counted righteous? This verse say .. by faith – by simply believing what God tells you to believe: “faith in his blood” Rom 3:25. Truelight: I don't quite agree. The faith you described above is called partial faith. Only with the inclusion of works can we consider full/perfect faith(James 2:22). We are counted righteous not by faith only, but by faith and works(James 2:20-24). True faith will produce works. LBS: Notice you said “We are counted righteous not by faith only…”? Read Rom 4:5 again. You deal honestly with the Scriptures. If you are truly confounded, admit it. You won’t lose anything.      I reproduce once again the verses I use to show that we can be saved by faith without works and that our faith in Christ’s death will help secure our eternal destiny. Show me that it is false doctrine: Rom4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. How can we ever ever be counted righteous? This verse say .. by faith – by simply believing what God tells you to believe: “faith in his blood” Rom 3:25. What will happen to everyone that is counted righteous by faith? Rom 9: 30 …whom he justified [counted righteous], them he also glorified [rendered glorious with a new incorruptible body]… Whom He justified, them He will also glorified. If you are justified by faith, you will get a new resurrected body. Got that? Has works any role to play in salvation? Rom 11:6 … if it be of works, then is it no more grace: If you say, bearing fruits/works has any role to play in salvation, then you can’t say salvation is by grace. But Eph 2:8 says “For by grace are ye saved …”

to: "Hi Truelight, Do me a favour first"

Messages Inline: Outline:

1. The works of the Law or the works of obedience? by Ivan, 2001, Oct 31

1. Thanks for defining "works" in Roman. by True Light, 2001, Oct 31

(_ Ivan's definition is Living Faith = faith+obedient works = righteousness ....is it then different from your definition? by Royston Ong, 2001, Oct 31

2. What is faith? by True Light, 2001, Oct 31

3. Ivan, Truelight, Need your help to understand by LBS, 2001, Oct 31

1. Hi LBS, To answer you, I need to ask you a question....... by Ivan, 2001, Oct 31

2. Grace, Faith & Believe by True Light, 2001, Nov 01

3. Ivan, Truelight, Haven't got a satisfactory reply yet by LBS, 2001, Nov 01

1. On true Christian by Ivan, 2001, Nov 01

1. My concern: are we believing/preaching the right gospel by LBS, 2001, Nov 02

1. Hi LBS by Ivan, 2001, Nov 02

2. 2 questions by True Light, 2001, Nov 03

1. Reply by LBS, 2001, Nov 03

2. Don't think can help you. by True Light, 2001, Nov 01

1. Haven't changed topic, still on salvation&works by LBS, 2001, Nov 03

4. common ground: we are all saved in Christ by Keith, 2001, Nov 02

1. A matter of life and death by LBS, 2001, Nov 02

(_ I have to explain further because you believe in an empty faith. by True Light, 2001, Nov 03

(_ Faith is believing what God ask you to believe by LBS, 2001, Nov 03

1. Hi LBS by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 04

1. But we must be consistent by LBS, 2001, Nov 04

(_ The mysteries of Abide in me, AND I in you by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 05

1. To further add by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 05

1. Hence, nothing about works comes into play, but it follows the same train of thought as by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 05

(_ Fully agree with you on this. by Keith, 2001, Nov 05

1. Maths class by True Light, 2001, Nov 05

1. Actually, TL. I am afraid it is not at all close to a summation rule, as proposed by both Ivan and yourself eom by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 06

2. Hi TL by Keith, 2001, Nov 06

1. I like your explanation on the baby christian equation. by True Light, 2001, Nov 06

(_ On baby christians and balanced teachings by Keith, 2001, Nov 07

1. You are right! different approach. by True Light, 2001, Nov 07

1. True believer? by Keith, 2001, Nov 08

(_ Thanks. EOM by True Light, 2001, Nov 08

2. Yah yah, am certainly moving along the same wavelength as you are by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 08

2. Go ahead, if it helps to make things clearer for all. by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 05

2. Still see inconsistencies regarding Jn 15:1-8 by LBS, 2001, Nov 06

1. What kind of "once saved always saved" do you believe?. by True Light, 2001, Nov 07

1. Please see post "Recap" by LBS, 2001, Nov 09

2. TL and SBG are unable to see past it, does not mean they totally disagree by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 08

1. Confounded by LBS, 2001, Nov 09

1. Am a little tired as I reply this.... by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 10

1. Understand you are tired by LBS, 2001, Nov 11

2. Please re-read my earlier posting to you.... by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 10

2. I twist verses? by True Light, 2001, Nov 04

1. You didn't read me post properly by LBS, 2001, Nov 05

(_ Re-post by True Light, 2001, Nov 05

(_ I haven't changed my belief! by LBS, 2001, Nov 05

(_ Your answer not clear by True Light, 2001, Nov 05

(_ Please see post "Recap" by LBS, 2001, Nov 09

4. Recap by LBS, 2001, Nov 09

1. Please reconsider by Ivan, 2001, Nov 10

1. not exactly agree by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 11

1. We cannot hope to fully explain the Apostle James teaching on the 2 sides of the same coin (born-again heart)...... by Ivan, 2001, Nov 11

(_ if you say :"Like I said the resulting or subsequent works of obedience is a ..." by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 12

(_ We need to explain the equation by Ivan, 2001, Nov 13

2. The reason for this discussion by LBS, 2001, Nov 11

1. Hi LBS by Ivan, 2001, Nov 11

1. Amen! Ivan, I think you explained better. by True Light, 2001, Nov 11

(_ You forgot the FMs & the Readers. Hehehe! eom by saved-by-grace, 2001, Nov 12

(_ Oops! Errr! the FM & readers are represented by those dots. kekeke! EOM by True Light, 2001, Nov 12

2. Closing the gap in our understanding? by LBS, 2001, Nov 11

1. O gosh! The debate is going to repeat itself one more time? by saved-by-grace, 2001, Nov 12

2. For your sake who is still on the milk of God's word and not ready for solid food, by Ivan, 2001, Nov 12

3. Wrapping up by LBS, 2001, Nov 17

1. In summing up, you are in a dangerous position if you continue in the carnal state, and not walk in the Spirit.... by Ivan, 2001, Nov 17

to: "Hi Truelight, Do me a favour first"

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