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Ivan, Truelight, Haven't got a satisfactory reply yet 
Getting into the "Secrets of the Vine" (Ivan)
Salvation & works
Thanks LBS, do you want to contribute and form your own conclusion,if any? eom. (Ivan)
Responding
Hi Truelight, Do me a favour first
Ivan, Truelight, Need your help to understand
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Hi Ivan, Truelight Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. “deeds of the law” in this verse does not refer to just ceremonial acts of the Mosaic Law as both of you suggested. Read Rom 2:17-23 to see that “deeds of the law” also covers moral laws, what you would call “works of obedience”. In Rom 2 &3, God shows that the chosen nation of Israel, and hence by extension all mankind, was not able to gain justification in His sight by the deeds of the law: Rom 3:20 “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight…” The law that God gave to the Jews, ie the Mosaic Law, covers over 600 laws; some are ceremonial laws, while others are civil and moral laws. Hence Rom3:28 says that we are justified by faith without deeds of the law, not just ceremonial acts of the law. Truelight you says “As for Roman 11:6, the peoples in Roman works not out of faith, they did it just to fulfill the Law, just like the pharisees. Paul is telling them to have faith in God which which will lead to works.” LBS: If you look at preceding verse Rom 11:5, it refers to the “remnant according to the election of grace”. This remnant of Israel are saved/elected according to grace. Rom 11:6 takes pain to say it is by grace, grace, got nothing whatsoever to do with works. Ivan you wrote: “Does faith come from hearing the WORD in Romans only?” LBS: No. Let me quote again what I said: “Faith is based on hearing what God tells you – if God says XXX to you and you believe XXX, then that is faith. It is critical to determine from Scriptures what it is that God wants you to believe.” So far, it looks like both of you are not able to help me see how the verses in Rom is not teaching “once saved, always saved”. Am I not right to say that? |
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Messages
Outline:
On true Christian by Ivan, 2001, Nov 01
My concern: are we believing/preaching the right gospel by LBS, 2001, Nov 02
Hi LBS by Ivan, 2001, Nov 02
2 questions by True Light, 2001, Nov 03
Reply by LBS, 2001, Nov 03
Don't think can help you. by True Light, 2001, Nov 01
Haven't changed topic, still on salvation&works by LBS, 2001, Nov 03
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