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Hi TL 
Getting into the "Secrets of the Vine" (Ivan)
Salvation & works
Thanks LBS, do you want to contribute and form your own conclusion,if any? eom. (Ivan)
Responding
Hi Truelight, Do me a favour first
Ivan, Truelight, Need your help to understand 
common ground: we are all saved in Christ (Keith)
A matter of life and death
I have to explain further because you believe in an empty faith. (True Light)
Faith is believing what God ask you to believe
Hi LBS (Royston Ong)
But we must be consistent
The mysteries of Abide in me, AND I in you (Royston Ong)
To further add (Royston Ong)
Hence, nothing about works comes into play, but it follows the same train of thought as (Royston Ong)
Fully agree with you on this. (Keith)
Maths class (True Light)
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Hi TL,
You wrote: Base on your equation, is it still faith if you take away the works?. That means Faith = Righteousness + 0 ? I write: It depends on how you read the equation. You seem to be saying that observable Righteousness and Works proves that Faith exists. But I'm saying Faith WILL result in Righteous and Good Works. In my view, the equation Faith = Righteouness + 0 can be a valid one (say, for baby Christians). But I trust that God loves his children too much to want them to remain babies forever. I trust that a true Christian under the right teaching will grow, and as he matures in Faith, he will produce good works. and the equation "Faith = Righteousness + Works" becomes applicable and replaces the initial one "Faith = Righteouness + 0". Please understand that I am all for Christian working out their salvation. I just don't think that it is by emphasising on the necessity and importance of works that we can achieve that objective. I'm not saying that we should deny the importance of works. But I strongly believe that the focus should first and foremost be on who we are in Christ and what we have in Him. If I were a coach of a soccer team, I don't think I would keep emphasising to my strikers that they need to score goals (i think REAL strikers will feel offended if I keep doing so). I may remind them once in a while if they lose their zeal or discipline and just want to fool around during matches, but most of the time, I would rather remind them how gifted they are as goal scorers and ask them to enjoy the games. When it comes helping/encouraging fellow believers to lead a fruitful and victorious christian life, I adopt a similar approach. You may disagree, but personally, I believe this is the right and the best approach. His, Keith
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Messages
Outline:
I like your explanation on the baby christian equation. by True Light, 2001, Nov 06
On baby christians and balanced teachings by Keith, 2001, Nov 07
You are right! different approach. by True Light, 2001, Nov 07
True believer? by Keith, 2001, Nov 08
Thanks. EOM by True Light, 2001, Nov 08
Yah yah, am certainly moving along the same wavelength as you are by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 08
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