You are right! different approach.

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You are right! different approach.

Forum: Messageboard
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Getting into the "Secrets of the Vine" (Ivan)
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Salvation & works
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Thanks LBS, do you want to contribute and form your own conclusion,if any? eom. (Ivan)
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Responding
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Hi Truelight, Do me a favour first
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Ivan, Truelight, Need your help to understand
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common ground: we are all saved in Christ (Keith)
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A matter of life and death
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I have to explain further because you believe in an empty faith. (True Light)
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Faith is believing what God ask you to believe
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Hi LBS (Royston Ong)
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But we must be consistent
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The mysteries of Abide in me, AND I in you (Royston Ong)
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To further add (Royston Ong)
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Hence, nothing about works comes into play, but it follows the same train of thought as (Royston Ong)
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Fully agree with you on this. (Keith)
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Maths class (True Light)
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Hi TL (Keith)
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I like your explanation on the baby christian equation. (True Light)
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On baby christians and balanced teachings (Keith)
Date: 2001, Nov 07
From: True Light TrueLight

Hi Keith,
YOU : I seriously doubt that a true believer with the right understanding of the christian faith would choose to remain a baby forever.
*** What constitute a true believer?. This is the question that I'm always asking. Till now I have not got a satisfied answer.
Someone who has repented and accepted Christ before but have not been doing anything for years, not even sharing the gospel. True Believer?.
Someone who has repented and accepted Christ before but have been sinning wilfully against God. True believer?.
Someone who has repented and accepted Christ before but have since not attending any church service. True believer?.
I hope you can help answer the above cos I'm trying to figure your belief.
YOU : But I acknowledge that my personal experience may not be universally applicable. I therefore do not reject the possibility that another person (who is in a different growth stage in life and has a different set of circumstances to deal with) may benefit from a more "balanced" teaching rather than the "radical" grace teaching. I trust God is in charge.
*** I think your approach is ok. I believe in various approaches also; provided that one does not teach that we does not need to obey.
YOU : Me again: In fact, if I remember correctly, ES did not say those words. He was quoting the words of a missionary. I don't think ES was encouraging a lazy christian life style. On the contrary, ES was showing us an example of a fruitful and extremely hardworking missionary who risk his life for the work of our Lord - a real life example of how a person who believes in radical grace (and said those "offending" words which you quoted above) can still serve God fervently. I think ES is trying to allay the fears of those who believe that such "dangerous" belief (in radical grace) will inevitably lead to a non-productive/licentious life style.
*** I presume ES agree with the missionary's statement since he quoted that. I also believe that ES was not encouraging a lazy christian life style but that kind of statement/teaching is "well loved" by most people and it may give them leeway or opportunity to be lazy or to sin.
YOU : do you consider the missionary (who said those words) a true christian?
*** Honestly, I don't know. On one hand, he is working for God and on the other hand, he is preaching that one is still saved even if he shake leg and do nothing.
YOU : I hope you see that I also view obedience to Christ as important, but I'm approach it from a different angle :-)
*** I see where you are coming from and I think there is nothing wrong with your approach. Again, I will disagree if someone preached that salvation is secure if even if he sin wilfully against God.
YOU : I feel motivated by faith (of my coach in my abilities)rather than by fear (of the possibility of being kicked out of the team if I don't perform).
A "balanced" coaching approach that utilises both faith and fear may work for others, but I don't think it will work for me. I prefer not to be burdened by fear at all. So I believe that as a striker, I would enjoy my game most and hence perform best when I've been given full trust and support by my coach.
*** Different people need different approach. So I think the whole soccer team need you and me as their coaches, right! kekeke!.
YOU : The way I see it, balancing grace and works means to see faith (in the grace of God) as the ONLY reason for us to obtain righteousness from God. Good works comes into the picture only as an eventual result that validate to the world that our faith is a living faith.
*** I totally agree with you. If you have noticed my previous messages, I keep asking what constitute living faith and true believer. Absence of work mean absence of living faith, agree?.
YOU : I guess unless one of us decides to change the way we see things and the way we interpret what we read in the Scripture, we will have to agree to disagree :-)
*** I think it is the approach that differs and not the teaching. Anyway, I will not tell someone that if they don't obey, they will go to hell. The most I will do is to ask them to read the Bible concerning obedience.
May God gives us wisdom and understanding.
Jesus Loves
True Light