Still see inconsistencies regarding Jn 15:1-8

HEADER FOR MessageBoard II

(Click picture to go back to Table of Contents)

Welcome to Messageboard II

Agora Messageboard now functions as a quorum. Please click to join as a member. We want to hear from you... A query that needs an answer, a word to uplift the people, a statement of concern that needs prayer, a cry for help...

God bless you...

Previous Messageboard have been archived.

Still see inconsistencies regarding Jn 15:1-8

Forum: Messageboard
Re:

Getting into the "Secrets of the Vine" (Ivan)
Re:

Salvation & works
Re:

Thanks LBS, do you want to contribute and form your own conclusion,if any? eom. (Ivan)
Re:

Responding
Re:

Hi Truelight, Do me a favour first
Re:

Ivan, Truelight, Need your help to understand
Re:

common ground: we are all saved in Christ (Keith)
Re:

A matter of life and death
Re:

I have to explain further because you believe in an empty faith. (True Light)
Re:

Faith is believing what God ask you to believe
Re:

Hi LBS (Royston Ong)
Re:

But we must be consistent
Re:

The mysteries of Abide in me, AND I in you (Royston Ong)
Date: 2001, Nov 06
From: LBS

Hi Royston, Let me reaffirm that I believe that faith alone in Christ’s death on the cross saves us, works has no role in our salvation. Just need to read Rom 1-5 to come to this conclusion. This is the only gospel that God wants all men to believe in for salvation today. But I am not agreeable with your reading of Jn 15:1-8. LBS: The argument that “take away” in Jn 15:2 means something like lifting up branches doesn’t make sense because it is inconsistent with Jn 15:6 which talks about these branches being cast away into the fire and burnt, which means they have been parted from the main plant, not just lifted up from the mud. It also doesn’t make sense to argue that Jn 15:2 is talking about believers and Jn 15:6 is talking about non-believers. If you say “abide not in me” in Jn 15:6 refers to non-believers, then in Jn 15:2 “Every branch in me that beareth not fruit” you would have to say these branches are abiding in Christ because they are believers. You see the contradiction – how can a branch be unfruitful and still be said to be abiding in Christ when Jn 15:5 it says “He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit:”? Royston: “Most of us Christians are on either plane of understanding. Some only Abide in Christ.....and stop there....hence, we do not bear abundant fruit… Hence, we can be in Christ, and not bear fruit, because we have not allowed Christ to be moulded in us (I in you).” LBS: Jn 15:5 “…He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit”. According to this verse if a man abide in Christ, he shall surely “bringeth forth much fruit”. It doesn’t say a man can “Abide in Christ … and stop there .. [and] not bear …abundant fruit.” So you see why it makes so much sense to Truelight/Ivan/SBG who would argue that Jn 15:2 talks about believers that are saved but lost their salvation because of unfruitfulness “Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away”. The arguments you brought up concerning reading “take away” as “lifting up from the mud”, saying that Jn 15:2 is talking about disciplining of Christians, saying that Jn 15:6 is talking about unbelievers – all these cannot be supported by saying that “abide in Christ” doesn’t necessary means must bear fruit because Jn 15:5 clearly says “…He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit”. I am pointing out the inconsistencies of the arguments you brought up; I am not saying I agree with Truelight/Ivan/SBG’s conclusions on salvation message and eternal security. So far Ivan/Truelight has not been able to answer the clear teaching of Rom 1-5 regarding how anyone could be saved at all today. They based their belief on Matt, James, John and simply ignore the clear teaching in Romans. God blessed you