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Re-post 
Getting into the "Secrets of the Vine" (Ivan)
Salvation & works
Thanks LBS, do you want to contribute and form your own conclusion,if any? eom. (Ivan)
Responding
Hi Truelight, Do me a favour first
Ivan, Truelight, Need your help to understand 
common ground: we are all saved in Christ (Keith)
A matter of life and death
I have to explain further because you believe in an empty faith. (True Light)
Faith is believing what God ask you to believe
I twist verses? (True Light)
You didn't read me post properly
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Hi LBS,
I admit I have misread you this time. I apologised. I was confused where you are coming from. I thought you believe in the "once saved always saved" teaching and now looks like you are leaning towards us, I mean Me/Ivan/SBG. Allow me to write again. LBS: Are you serious when you said the above, that Romans is talking about a certain group of people that are destined to be saved, which means does not apply to people like you or me? *** You have misread me also. I said "the scriptures you quoted in Roman" and not "the whole book of Roman". What I am saying is that Paul is speaking to the saints in Roman, and in Roman 11:5, he is telling the saints that there will be a a remnant of Jews that are predestined to be saved. You would like to read Rom 11:1-7 again especially verse 1. LBS: I totally disagree with the deceptive ways people go about trying to change the meaning of the above verses. They say “takes away” in Jn 15:2 means doesn’t mean “take away” as in being extracted from the main plant but something like lifting up branches from the mud. Whatever it is, these branches like what Jn15:6 says is going to end up in the fire and be burnt. *** I agree. LBS: Mtt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Isn’t it plain and simple and clear? Do we have to make this Scripture say something else? *** That's why we don't support "once saved always saved". There will be saints not saved. LBS: Isn’t clear that Jas 2:14 ask “can faith save him?” Does this sound like talking about walk, apart from salvation? Jas 2:26 says “faith without works is dead”, so faith alone is not enough. *** This, I don't quite understand what you mean. What is your stand?. Would you like to elaborate. LBS: You see I don’t try to twist and turn these verses. You must also do the same with the verses I brought up in Romans which teaches that ” a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Rom 3:28), and deeds of the law in context means all types of works that God requires of man. *** As I have said, Roman 11:5 is talking about a predestinated Jew, so I would agree with you that this group of people need not works to be saved. I hope I have clarified myself. Btw, what do you believe?. I am still confused. Jesus Loves True Light
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Messages
Outline:
I haven't changed my belief! by LBS, 2001, Nov 05
Your answer not clear by True Light, 2001, Nov 05
Please see post "Recap" by LBS, 2001, Nov 09
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