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Getting into the "Secrets of the Vine" (Ivan)
Salvation & works
Thanks LBS, do you want to contribute and form your own conclusion,if any? eom. (Ivan)
Responding
Hi Truelight, Do me a favour first
Recap
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I do not wish to wander around in circle. It will get us nowhere. Let's move and enter the "Promised Land" to enjoy the blessings of God.
I think there is no contradiction in our(SBG/TL/Ivan) belief that salvation is through the cross and not the Law. The question before us is this: Is the person truly born-again? If a person has a born-again heart, his conversion will be genuine and it will result in a life of obedience. If a person is not born-again through the acceptance of Jesus and repentance from sin, then his deeds will be considered religious deeds or Law which cannot save him. Paul and James do not contradict each other. Paul emphasises that faith is not religious deeds without a born-again heart; James stresses that faith is not a born-again heart without deeds (works of obedience). Neither would agree to the validity of an empty creedal faith. Consider the eg of Abraham. Abraham's deed (obedience) was not religious because he believed God. If he does not believe God, then his deed will be an external show of religiousity or self-righteousness. He was pronounced righteous the moment he believed. His subsequent obedience demonstrated the reality of his righteousness. I hope you will not be confused or confounded anymore if you allow yourself to accommodate the differences in expression by Apostle Paul and James. Can we agree? Because of Jesus,
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Messages
Outline:
not exactly agree by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 11
We cannot hope to fully explain the Apostle James teaching on the 2 sides of the same coin (born-again heart)...... by Ivan, 2001, Nov 11
if you say :"Like I said the resulting or subsequent works of obedience is a ..." by Royston Ong, 2001, Nov 12
We need to explain the equation by Ivan, 2001, Nov 13
The reason for this discussion by LBS, 2001, Nov 11
Hi LBS by Ivan, 2001, Nov 11
Amen! Ivan, I think you explained better. by True Light, 2001, Nov 11 
You forgot the FMs & the Readers. Hehehe! eom by saved-by-grace, 2001, Nov 12
Oops! Errr! the FM & readers are represented by those dots. kekeke! EOM by True Light, 2001, Nov 12
Closing the gap in our understanding? by LBS, 2001, Nov 11
O gosh! The debate is going to repeat itself one more time? by saved-by-grace, 2001, Nov 12
For your sake who is still on the milk of God's word and not ready for solid food, by Ivan, 2001, Nov 12
Wrapping up by LBS, 2001, Nov 17
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