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On God's Election and man's choice 
On Dice and the Fixed Future - Part I (John Doe 666)
Hi J36 (Ivan)
Answer (John Doe 666)
May I ask further (Ivan)
Both (John Doe 666)
So, God didnt fix our lives here though His knowledge is perfect; we fix our lives & choose the consequences, right?eom. (Ivan)
No (John Doe 666)
So, God fix our lives; we still make choices as though we fix our lives and face the consequences, right? eom. (Ivan)
How come like to view as linear relationship? (Eveline How)
Life is linear? (John Doe 666)
Does God garantee that we will obey one day? (saved-by-grace)
Obedience and the fixed future (John Doe 666)
Not easy to reconcile the Sovereignity of God and the responsibility of men. (saved-by-grace)
Dice is loaded against ALL humanity.. (John Doe 666)
Hi J36 (Ivan)
Longsuffering (John Doe 666)
What I am saying (Ivan)
My perspective (John Doe 666)
Your thinking needs renewal (Ivan)
It is in Scripture - but we have the mind of Christ (John Doe 666)
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As requested to read up the subject on "Election", which I did not deny that this is in the Bible, I would like to expand on your understanding of election from the New Bible Dictionary. I will only quote certain parts which will shed further light on this subject which you may not be aware.
Election is a sovereign choice, prompted by God's own good pleasure alone (Eph 1:5,9), and not by any works of man, accomplished or foreseen (Rom 9:11), or any human efforts to win God's favour (Rom 9:15-18). Such efforts would in any case be vain, for however high sinners aspire and however fast they run, they still in reality only sin (Rom 8:7,8). God in sovereign freedom treats some sinners as they deserve, hardening (Rom 9:18; Rom 11:7-10) and destroying them (Rom 8:21,22); but He selects others to be "vessels of mercy", receiving "the riches of His glory" (Rom 9:23). This discrimination involves no injustice, for the Creator owes mercy to none, and has a right to do as He pleases with His rebellious creatures (Rom 9:14-21). The wonder is not that He withholds mercy from some, but that He should be gracious to any. And it remains true, according to Paul, that it is God's sovereign election alone that explains why, when the gospel is preached, some do in fact respond to it. The unbelief of the rest requires no special explanation, for no sinner, left to himself, can believe (1 Cor 2:14); but the phenomenon of faith needs explaining. Paul's explanation is that God by His Spirit causes the elect to believe, so that when men come to a true and active faith in Christ it proves their election is a reality (1 Thess 1:4-6; Tit 1:1; Acts 13:48). Election is a choice of individual sinners to be saved in and through Christ. Election is "in Christ" (see Eph 1:4), the incarnate Son, whose historical appearing and mediation were themselves included in God's eternal plan (1 Pet 1:20; Acts 2:23). The significance of election for the believer is it spurs the believer to ethical endeavour as opposed to sanctioning licence (Eph 5:5) or presumption (Rom 11:19-22). The knowledge of one's election and the benefits that flow from it is the supreme incentive to humble, joyful, thankful love, the mainspring of sanctifying gratitude (Col 3:12-17). I hope that with the knowledge gained, we can be reconciled in our understanding of "Election". So, you can see that man's choice and God's election are reconcilable. If you want to do a thorough study, I commend you to read up the full text from the New Bible Dictionary. May the light of God's word shine on us,
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Messages
Outline:
You're agreeing with JD totally. Where's the reconciliation of men's responsibility to choose? eom by saved-by-grace, 2001, Dec 01
No, not at all by Ivan, 2001, Dec 01
To WHAT ? by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 03
Sounds confusing but it seems to be the same as JD's except for the fixing part. n/t. by Interested , 2001, Dec 01
The reasons why you seem confused by Ivan, 2001, Dec 01
Hi Ivan, your answer is fantastic. Keep it up. n/t. by Interested , 2001, Dec 02
Yah, Ivan doesn't seem to understand his New Bible Dictionary. n/t. by Interested , 2001, Dec 01
Yeah, I am interested in your Bible Dictionary which may be more simplified for the simple-minded.eom. by Ivan, 2001, Dec 01
I don't have a Bible dictionary. n/t. by Interested , 2001, Dec 01
Maybe you should invest in one that will help you understand better. eom. by Ivan, 2001, Dec 01
But your quotation from the said Dictionary fully supports JD's views and not yours. How do you understand? n/t by Interested , 2001, Dec 02
It seems to be so by Ivan, 2001, Dec 02
Not easy to reconcile the doctrine of Election (God's Sovereign's choice) and the Responsibility (Free Will) of men. by saved-by-grace, 2001, Dec 03 
you ARE agreeing with me.... by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 03
Because we do not have the complete, perfect picture, we do not want to fix our thinking by Ivan, 2001, Dec 03
Thanks Ivan...glad to know you comprehend what i'm warning about. eom by saved-by-grace, 2001, Dec 03
Binary thinking, to Ivan. by Interested , 2001, Dec 04
No double pre-destination by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 04
Hey Ivan, What on earth is linear thinking? The only linearity I know is y=a+bx. n/t by Interested , 2001, Dec 03
I think, it is different from lateral thinking. eom. by Ivan, 2001, Dec 03
Ah, so I thought. Sorry, am no fan of What's his name. n/t. by Interested , 2001, Dec 03
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