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Be counted worthy to escape 
Ivan....repost on pretrib discussion.... (prophet)
Which trib? (Ivan)
Ivan...my position on the Rapture (prophet)
The problem with post-trib view (Ivan)
Untitled (prophet)
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<<<You say: Again in Matthew , the 'parousia' is after the tribulation a, so where does it say before?
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other >>> I mentioned in my previous posting that there are 2 comings of the Lord. The passages in Mt 24:26-28 is referring to the 1st coming of Jesus in the clouds not on the earth (Note: He is in the desert; He is in the inner rooms). Jesus says: Do not believe it. However, the passages in Mt 24:29-31 is referring to the 2nd return of Jesus with power and great glory which description fits the account in Rev 19:11-16 when Jesus steps on Mt Olives with His saints coming as the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS at the end of the 7-year Great Tribulation. You can refer to Rev 8:12 when the 4th Trumpet judgment was sounded which similarly describes the heavens being struck as recorded in Mt 24:29. This event happened during the latter half of the Great Tribulation which we termed the wrath of God. Can you now see the order of events? <<<You say: Luke21 "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them for fear and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption [the redemption of the saints] draweth nigh." These things will happen on the last day of the Great Tribulation. >>> The accounts written by Luke is different from that of Matthew's accounts. You know that the events described by Luke and even Matthew are not in chronological order because they are prophesying about these future events. We have to look at other Scriptures in the OT and Revelation which speak of the future events to determine its chronology. I see three events mention in these passages ie. The GT, the 2nd return of Jesus on earth and the Rapture of the redeemed (1st coming) which is not in chronological order. The word "elect" is referring to Israel (Isa 45:4) as recorded in Mt's account. According to the Biblical accounts in Zech 14:3-5, Rev 19:11-21 which record the 2nd return of Christ on earth and defeat all the enemies at the Battle of Armageddon. And we learn from the passages of Mt, His angels will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Jesus will then set up His millennial rule from Jerusalem (Isa 11:1-12; 65:17-25, Joel 3:17-18, Zech 14:8-11, Rev 20:4-6) <<<You say: Rev16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame >>> If you continue to read v 16, it says that they are gathered together at the place called Armageddon [and then Jesus returns on the earth]. So, the verse is intentionally placed there by John to sound out the warning to the Christians to be watchful and not to walk in shame (bring shame to God's name) and to keep his garments pure as recorded similarly at Rev 3:3. It further says that Jesus is coming as a thief. What does it convey to you? It should clearly tell you of His 1st coming which we do not know the hour except Father God. It cannot be His 2nd return because this will definitely take place at the end of the 7-year GT which is calculable. My friend, this clearly shows that there are 2 comings of Jesus. <<<You say: Does this sound the same as Matthew? This is the parousia. Thw wrath is after this appearing. Remember it does take long for the saints to rapture...twinkling of an eye... we are in the air with Him and He lands at Armmagedon for the battle ( the Marriage Supper) The Marriage Supper of the Lamb is actually the victory against all those who has gone against the Lord. Look at Rev 19 16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. >>> In v 17,18 it speaks very clearly that all the fowls that fly are there to eat the flesh of kings, etc. How can this be the Marriage Supper of the Lamb celebration? Have the saints turn cannibals? Please re-examine your understanding. <<<You say: As I have said the Wrath and the tribulation is different. The greek word for tribulation and wrath is different. Why do you say that the AC persecutes in the first 3.5 years? Daniel indicates otherwise. First 3.5 years of peace and then 3.5 years of persecution by the AC. >>> I think that the Daniel accounts which you are referring to is Dan 9:27a which speaks of the Peace Covenant with Israel is confirmed for the 1st 3.5 years and broken at the end of the 1st 3.5 years (Dan 9:27b). During the AC rule in the GT, the 4 horses of the Apocalypse will be released which speaks of the appearance of AC (white horse), conflict on earth (red horse), scarcity on earth (black horse) and widespread death on earth (ashy pale horse; black and blue as if made so by bruising, Amplified Bible) according to Rev 6. How about not taking the marks of the Beast (AC)? The Christian converts during the GT will suffer persecution and untold sufferings if they do not take the mark of the Beast (666) during the 1st 3.5 years of GT and the terrible conditions during the 4 horses of the Apocalypse. How about joining me for the Great Escape by being watchful and faithful to Jesus? May we heed the instruction of Apostle John to the dead church in Sardis recorded in Rev 3:3 (NKJV).
Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. And to the faithful church in Philadelphia, in Rev 3:10,11 (NKJV).
Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Behold I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. Remain faithful and be rapturable,
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Messages
Outline:
Nope by prophet, 2001, Nov 29 
Remain faithful by Ivan, 2001, Nov 29
Persecution by prophet, 2001, Nov 30
Hey Hey by John Doe 666, 2001, Nov 30
The Bride of Jesus by Ivan, 2001, Nov 30
I will be ready..... by prophet, 2001, Nov 30
Let's sound the warning for I hear the sound of the pounding hoofs of the 4 horses of Apocalypse approaching. eom. by Ivan, 2001, Nov 30
Untitled by prophet, 2001, Nov 30
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