Read, not meditate.

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Read, not meditate.

Forum: Messageboard
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Could someone shed some light on... (simpleman)
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It is all in the mind. (Interested )
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Wrong! (prophet)
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If you are scared of something then you should do something about it. Fear is a bondage. n/t. (Interested )
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Truth (prophet)
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Sorry, don't agree with you. (Interested )
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A word of caution -Fro Interrested (John Doe 666)
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Fear of the Devil (from the Net). (Interested )
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maybe word use is NOT FEAR EVIL BUT TO SHUN & AVOID EVIL (Little Man of God)
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Well, the Lord by His Spirit is speaking to us to have no fellowship with the demons promoted thru' whatever form.eom. (Ivan)
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Most amusing thread (Eveline How)
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Thread 648-3 (Joe)
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"H Potter" is fit for the potty, no matter how many accolades and box office records set (Ivan)
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Untitled
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On the contrary..... (John Doe 666)
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Please (Eveline How)
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Casting down every imagination (Ivan)
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So (Eveline How)
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It's all about choices, knowing the difference and doing what's right (Ivan)
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If (Eveline How)
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Of (Ivan)
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Untitled (Eveline How)
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To Ivan/Eveline (John Doe 666)
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Adults and Children are different (Christopher Yip)
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A new category: RA(BAD) (Ivan)
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Which category of reader are you? (Christopher Yip)
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Almost persuaded (Ivan)
Date: 2001, Dec 13
From: Christopher Yip CKHY

Phil 4:8 (NKJV). Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy - meditate on these things.
YOU: The question before us is: Did HP books qualify under these eight things category named above? If the answer is yes, then this follows: "MEDITATE ON THESE THINGS".
You have to convince me that HP books qualify me to meditate on these things since you are a cat #4 reader.
ME: According to your implication, then even the bible should not be read entirely - Joshua with all its massacres, Ecclesiastes with all its angst, Song of Solomon with all its sensuality.
Even if the records of the genocides in Joshua qualify as "true" (Harry Potter, according to your position, is also true, in fact, so true that they should be avoided to prevent any subtle manipulation of the mind), in what ways are these also "noble", "just", "pure", "lovely", "of good report", virtuous or "praiseworthy"?
Do you then take these parts out of the bible before letting your children or friends read the bible?
Furthermore, how do the social sciences, physics, mathematics, history, comparative religions, arts fit into this grid? How do you use Phil 4:8 to justfify going to school in Singapore?
I suppose you also don't listen to any secular music, not even classical ones unless they are like Handel's Messiah?
No, seriously, how do you apply such a criteria to the entire range of learning media we have today? You take Phil 4:8 very seriously and I do the same.
Is this what Phil 4:8 is all about? Is this what Paul intends with the word logizomai (reckon, consider, impute, take into account, think, meditate)? (This word is very important in Protestant soteriology).
What does Paul intend that we should do with these things? Does it mean, as you imply, that believers should read ONLY such literature? Is it reasonable to think this is Paul's meaning?
If so, it is practically quite impossible for anyone to live like that. There would be no Christian literature teachers in schools, no Christian history teachers in school, no Christian comparative religion teachers in school, and any Christian who do so would not be obeying Phil 4:8?
On the contrary, Phil 4:8 does not prohibit one from reading offensive materials. Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words says this about logizomai in Phil 4:8:
primarily signifies "to reckon," whether by calculation or imputation, e.g., Gal 3:6 (RV, "reckoned"); then, to deliberate, and so to suppose, "account," Rom 8:36; 14:14 (AV, "esteemeth"); Jhn 11:50; 1Cr 4:1; Hbr 11:19; (AV, "consider"); Act 19:27 ("made of no account;" AV, "despised"); 1Pe 5:12 (AV, "suppose"). It is used of love in 1Cr 13:5, as not taking "account" of evil, RV (AV, "thinketh"). In 2Cr 3:5 the Apostle uses it in repudiation of idea that he and fellow-servants of God are so self-sufficient as to "account anything" (RV) as from themselves (AV, "think"), i.e., as to attribute anything to themselves. Cp. 2Cr 12:6. In 2Ti 4:16 it is used of laying to a person's "account" (RV) as a charge against him (AV, "charge"). Note: In Phl 4:8 it signifies "to think upon a matter by way of taking account of its character" (RV marg.). See CONCLUDE, COUNT, CHARGE, ESTEEM, IMPUTE, NUMBER, REASON, RECKON, SUPPOSE, THINK.
"To think upon a matter by way of taking account of its character" - that is, in our discussion here, to assess Harry Potter on account of its character in these terms. But to do that, you have got to read it first!
So, Phil 4:8 does not teach you to stay away from such literature. It says nothing of that sort. It does say that you must assess everything and accept virtue even when learnt from evil men.
Matthew Henry comments on this passage:
VII. We are exhorted to get and keep a good name, a name for good things with God and good men: Whatsoever things are true and honest (v. 8), a regard to truth in our words and engagements, and to decency and becomingness in our behaviour, suitable to our circumstances and condition of life. Whatsoever things are just and pure,—agreeable to the rules of justice and righteousness in all our dealings with men, and without the impurity or mixture of sin. Whatsoever things are lovely and of good report, that is, amiable; that will render us beloved, and make us well spoken of, as well as well thought of, by others. If there is any virtue, if there is any praise—any thing really virtuous of any kind and worthy of commendation.
Observe, 1. The apostle would have the Christians learn any thing which was good of their heathen neighbours: "If there be any virtue, think of these things—imitate them in what is truly excellent among them, and let not them outdo you in any instance of goodness.’’ We should not be ashamed to learn any good thing of bad men, or those who have not our advantages. 2. Virtue has its praise, and will have. We should walk in all the ways of virtue, and abide therein; and then, whether our praise be of men or no, it will be of God, Rom. 2:29.
In these things he proposes himself to them for an example (v. 9): Those things which you have learned, and received, and heard and seen in me, do. Observe, Paul’s doctrine and life were of a piece. What they saw in him was the same thing with what they heard from him. He could propose himself as well as his doctrine to their imitation. It gives a great force to what we say to others when we can appeal to what they have seen in us. And this is the way to have the God of peace with us—to keep close to our duty to him. The Lord is with us while we are with him. (end)
Notice: Observe, Paul’s doctrine and life were of a piece. What they saw in him was the same thing with what they heard from him. He could propose himself as well as his doctrine to their imitation. It gives a great force to what we say to others when we can appeal to what they have seen in us.
Credibility is very important when we wish to debunk something. And if you haven't read the material yourself, haven't researched into it, it is difficult to have credibility.
Now, Paul did not qualify the learning and restricted only learning from Scriptures or other Christians. We can also learn from secular works. Furthermore, we can and often learn by seeing what should not be done too.
If you read only proactively positive materials, then Ecclesiastes would not qualify, for it uses futility to teach the need for God, neither would Job, for it uses tragedy to teach reliance on God, nor Song, for it uses sexuality to teach God's love for us.
Can we learn absolutely nothing from Harry Potter? Is that what you say? Well, you certainly learn enough from it to avoid it.
Once again, you would have to encounter the book one way or another in order to arrive at your position. You came out more adamant, with greater conviction and understanding.
It was a necessary journey but a good one. Why not guide others along this way of learning, instead of asking them to avoid Harry Potter like some plague?
No, I do not ask you to meditate on witchcraft, magick, spells and incantations.
Asking you to read Harry Potter and then do your own thinking does not amount to asking you to meditate on the things the book promote. This is not the goal unless your ambition is to be the Slayer aka Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
The goal is to be credible in what you say. And when you have done enough research on the matter, who knows, you may find that there is insufficient evidence to conclude that Harry Potter is demonic. Lousy, unsuitable for Christmas gifts, okay but not demonic.
Christopher