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Wrong question. 
Could someone shed some light on... (simpleman)
It is all in the mind. (Interested )
Wrong! (prophet)
If you are scared of something then you should do something about it. Fear is a bondage. n/t. (Interested )
Truth (prophet)
Sorry, don't agree with you. (Interested )
A word of caution -Fro Interrested (John Doe 666)
Fear of the Devil (from the Net). (Interested )
maybe word use is NOT FEAR EVIL BUT TO SHUN & AVOID EVIL (Little Man of God)
Well, the Lord by His Spirit is speaking to us to have no fellowship with the demons promoted thru' whatever form.eom. (Ivan)
Most amusing thread (Eveline How)
Thread 648-3 (Joe)
"H Potter" is fit for the potty, no matter how many accolades and box office records set (Ivan)
Untitled
On the contrary..... (John Doe 666)
Please (Eveline How)
Casting down every imagination (Ivan)
So (Eveline How)
It's all about choices, knowing the difference and doing what's right (Ivan)
If (Eveline How)
Of (Ivan)
Untitled (Eveline How)
To Ivan/Eveline (John Doe 666)
Adults and Children are different (Christopher Yip)
A new category: RA(BAD) (Ivan)
Which category of reader are you? (Christopher Yip)
Almost persuaded (Ivan)
Read, not meditate. (Christopher Yip)
How does HP Glorify God ? (John Doe 666)
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JD,
YOU: I read your post and am puzzled if you are indeed advocating the reading of HP books. ME: Ah, at least you notice that I have not stated my position on Harry Potter. YOU: I am also a person who reads for answers, scrutiny and critisizing for comparison with the Word. There is enough reasons for us to not get involved in such books and movies. It has been very clear. God says have nothing to do with it. ( please re-read all those posts in other threads..) ME: There are many problems with your statement above. First, I understand the biblical teachings about witchcraft and consulting mediums. They are pretty clear. If this is what you refer to as "clear", then I understand. Second, what do you mean by "involved"? Is it the same as what Ivan said "plunging ... into"? Does this mean start casting spells, teaching others to cast spells, starting a coven, becoming a witch or wizard, start to lie, etc.? Is this what you mean by "involved"? Or do you mean by "involved" what your opponents mean, the act of reading, analysing, understanding and then discerning right from wrong, and maybe even enjoying the storytelling along the way? If "involved" refers to the first, then the biblical injunctions apply. And this is on the condition that Harry Potter is in FACT witchcraft dressed up in a fairytale. I believe on Rowling can tell us this. If "involved" is what your opponents mean, then the biblical references to witchcraft do not apply. Thirdly, if we are to read the thing you are trying to rebut, we need to have a copy of it first. Of course you can go to the library and borrow it but you can't annotate it or mark it, and you can't always have it by your side. It is better to buy a copy. For instance, you might want to get the Qu'ran in order to understand Islam. Would paying for the Qu'ran constitute "involvement"? Would the money have been better spent as offering or given to charity? How does a Christian apologist go about this? YOU: Simply put, Does this book,movies GIVE GLORY to God ? If so can you show me How it does that ??? ( In all that we do, We are to seek to glorify God, right ? ) ME: Why must the book or movie glorify God before we are allowed to READ it? The Roman Catholics have this sort of practice. Books teaching Roman Catholicism comes with the stamp, nihil obstat, or imprimatur - meaning it is printed with the sanction of the RCC and it is without error as to its teachings. RCs are encouraged to check this status when reading theology, they are discouraged from reading anti-RC books. This means basically Protestant books, especially those that deal with RC apologetics. Do you think, as a Protestant, this is desirable? Why? Is your question valid? The verse says "So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God. Do not give offense to Jews or Greeks or to the church of God, just as I also try to please everyone in all things. I do not seek my own benefit, but that of many, so that they may be saved" (1 Corinthians 10:31-33 NET). May we apply this question to all other things we read? Does the Straits Times give glory to God? Does Kindred Spirits on TVU glorify God? Does the BBC series Journey with Dinosaurs (?) glorify God? Does Enid Blyton, or the Hardy Boys, or the Three Investigators glorify God? How do we know whether eating cheese is glorifying God? What about drinking coke? Really, how do we know? You have to answer my questions. I am asking for consistency and you have to show consistency otherwise, I would think that you are just using whatever weapon you can find to bludgeon your opponent, even if it is inconsistent. You need to show me how I can apply this general rule of glorifying God to justify all the activities in my life. Paul says this in the context of "Do not give offense to Jews or Greeks or to the church of God". Truly, if Harry Potter is pure evil, all the more Christians should read and rebut it for "I do not seek my own benefit, but that of many, so that they may be saved". But we cannot do it without opening its pages and allowing it to speak for itself. Is it possible to read Harry Potter in order to glorify God? I'm thinking of those who read it in order to fully understand the author in her own words so that their rebuttals are credible. Or are these folks committing a great sin? And for these folks who are so used to such a practice of going to firsthand sources, and finding it an effective way of learning and inoculating themselves against falsehood, is it so wrong for them to teach others to do likewise? YOU: Frankly, I see so many people trying to defend HP as mere reading pleasure, liturature or what not.....Sometimes I wonder where those deceptive thoghts come from..... ME: There are two kinds of people who would do this. The first would be the cat #2 readers. They do not pick up all these vibes about witchcraft at all. They read and then forget. It's as simple as that. The second would be a cat #3/#4 reader who has concluded, after his own study, that it is a fairytale, albeit one whose line between fact and fantasy is a lot thinner than traditional children literature. What makes you believe that any of these readers has been a victim of deceptive thoughts presumably the work of the devil? I suspect it is because you believe that your conclusion, your own findings are infallible. Whether it is the result of firsthand information, or replay of some packaged opinion of others, you seem to think that these conclusions are final and true. Hence, anything else must be the work of the devil. It is not ipso facto wrong to have such a stand. I mean I often assume this position in debating Roman Catholics. What then is the difference? Once again, its the facts and evidences. In my debates with RCs, I appeal to what they recognise as primary sources. I read them, read commentaries on them, test this understanding with my opponent, and then challenge them on the accuracy of it all. But all this means I have to be familiar with the literature. And I cannot be credible if I haven't even opened a page of those books. If I relied on certain competent and holy men, what happens if my opponent brings out a contradictory view from other equally competent and holy men? I think I would be pretty embarrassed by that! I could quickly change "tapes" - plug in the new view into my head and press "Play". But then my opponent may continue this strategy. Ultimately, I must think for myself. I must come to the conclusions myself, through my own work, through my own wrestling with the text, through forcing my mind to work on the passages. It is not unlike the feeling of satori. My point is this: when you have gone down that journey personally, you tend to become more conciliatory, more open to other ways of looking at things. In other words, more mature, wiser. And when you reach such a state, you will learn when it is time to agree to disagree, and do so amicably without name-calling or hellfire and brimstone or other pejoratory insinuations. And why would you tolerate a different view especially one that may, in your opinion, dishonour God? Because you realise that the evidence before you is insufficient to conclude one way or the other. To be dogmatic about your position is then to deny the very process of reasoning, of exegesis by which you arrive in this position in the first place, with the result that your position rests now on something you deny. In short, your position becomes irrational. On the other hand, if you believe that the process of reasoning, of weighing the evidence, of rationalising, of exegesis is valid, and thus your position is sound, then you must at least accord your opponent the same presumption of validity. You can proceed to demonstrate why his conclusion is unsound using the same process. Equally competent and equally holy men have come to opposite conclusions about Harry Potter. Why are their conclusions discounted? Is it because they disagree with the position you have decided to adopt? Isn't this dogmatism? Something which we wouldn't want our children to learn. Christopher
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Messages
Outline:
It is simple.... by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 14
Ah! by Christopher Yip, 2001, Dec 14
Untitled by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 14
Okay. (eom) by Christopher Yip, 2001, Dec 15
Yes! We should not involve with anyone who promotes witchcraft in HP books and also not to read them.eom. by Ivan, 2001, Dec 14
Hey, JD why is eating cheese not glorifying to God. I eat it quite often? n/t. by Interested , 2001, Dec 15
I hope you know that it was just a joke ? ;) by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 24
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