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Getting bad 
Could someone shed some light on... (simpleman)
It is all in the mind. (Interested )
Wrong! (prophet)
If you are scared of something then you should do something about it. Fear is a bondage. n/t. (Interested )
Truth (prophet)
Sorry, don't agree with you. (Interested )
A word of caution -Fro Interrested (John Doe 666)
Fear of the Devil (from the Net). (Interested )
maybe word use is NOT FEAR EVIL BUT TO SHUN & AVOID EVIL (Little Man of God)
Well, the Lord by His Spirit is speaking to us to have no fellowship with the demons promoted thru' whatever form.eom. (Ivan)
Most amusing thread (Eveline How)
Thread 648-3 (Joe)
"H Potter" is fit for the potty, no matter how many accolades and box office records set (Ivan)
Untitled
On the contrary..... (John Doe 666)
Please (Eveline How)
Casting down every imagination (Ivan)
So (Eveline How)
It's all about choices, knowing the difference and doing what's right (Ivan)
If (Eveline How)
Of (Ivan)
Untitled (Eveline How)
To Ivan/Eveline (John Doe 666)
Adults and Children are different (Christopher Yip)
A new category: RA(BAD) (Ivan)
Which category of reader are you? (Christopher Yip)
Almost persuaded (Ivan)
Read and meditate (Ivan)
Sad indeed. (Christopher Yip)
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<<<YOU: You haven't answered my earlier query, how do you use Phil 4:8 to justify going to school in Singapore and learning all the curriculum? If all that is read must always be worthy of meditation, then certainly we must read only what is good and acceptable in God's sight. But that is not the case in school.
So your justification for reading the bad and ugly in the Bible lies in the lessons such reading can teach us. That's a good start. So materials that can teach us greater understanding of what is good and evil should be worthy of our reading. >>> I think you just try to be difficult here re the school curriculum. Is the school curriculum evil that is so abominable that falls short of Phil 4:8? Ask the student and he will be able to answer you. What kind of evil are you talking about? Not the likes of HP books and movies. These are really unworthy of our reading and meditating. <<<YOU: Let us look for an example in Ecclesiastes: "In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these: a righteous man perishing in his righteousness, and a wicked man living long in his wickedness. Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise-- why destroy yourself? Do not be overwicked, and do not be a fool-- why die before your time? It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. The man who fears God will avoid all [extremes]". (Ecclesiastes 7:15-18 NIV) "It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other .. avoid all extremes" - huh? Is the Teacher saying that the man who fears God should grasp righteousness without letting go of wickedness? That people should live their lives with a balance of modest righteousness and modest wickedness? >>> I think you have to learn and unlearn a lot of things. Do you really know what the above passages are talking about? Do you know what the wise King Solomon or Teacher is talking about? Do you know what is the consequence of getting into extremes of over-righteousness and over-wickedness: early death. The point is this: the man who fears God will avoid early death. Who do you think will qualify as over-righteous? The religious fanatics like the terrorists that tear down the Twin Towers of NY. These people have gone to their early grave. Is it God's will for us to be evil or learn to be evil? For the answer, look up 1 Thess 5:22. Where do you learn about good and evil? The good Book. Let the Holy Bible be the judge. <<<YOU: And what about this advice: "There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: righteous men who get what the wicked deserve, and wicked men who get what the righteous deserve. This too, I say, is meaningless. So I commend the enjoyment of life, because nothing is better for a man under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad. Then joy will accompany him in his work all the days of the life God has given him under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 8:14-15 NIV) The Teacher appears to be commending a self-indulgent lifestyle of Epicurean hedonism. He laments the absolute futility of life and the lack of eternal retribution. Now, surely these are not things that are "true, noble, just, praiseworthy,.." etc, are they? Even the concluding remarks of Ecclesiastes does not overturn these teachings. "Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole [duty] of man." (Ecclesiastes 12:13 NIV) Sure, we are to fear God but didn't the Teacher say that it is not good to be too righteous? That we should have a balance of wickedness too? And what about the futility of life? Are you sure you want the children to meditate on these things? If you put the book of Ecclesiastes into the hands of a child and let him read it WITHOUT GUIDANCE and ask him what he has learnt, should it surprise us that the above are his conclusions as well? Then isn't it dangerous to read Ecclesiastes? The point is that ALL reading by an incompetent or immature reader must be GUIDED in order that he learns properly. I called it supervised thinking. >>> By all means, guide and supervise your children in looking into the Bible. Show them the ropes; teach them how to fish so that they can be grounded in God's word. Tell them what to look for in the Bible: Command to obey, Promise to claim and Facts to believe on. "Train up a child in the way that he should go, when he is old he will not depart from it." If you wnnt them to fear the Lord, teach them the Holy Scriptures from childhood and it will stay with them. <<<YOU: In the same way, one CAN read Harry Potter and STILL learn that witchcraft and magick are abominations to God. One can ENJOY the boy's adventures and STILL know that lying is wrong. You seem to be saying that this is not possible; if one reads Harry Potter, one would mindlessly be zapped into witchcraft. Period. >>> I supposed you can supervise to a certain extent the thinking of the children but what they assimilate into their minds and hearts on reading HP books is beyond your control. If they are grounded in God's word, I am afraid not at this stage, then we are treading dangerously by exposing our impressionable children to such abominable materials that may creep into their lives unconsciously and unknowingly noticed by the parents. Who knows they may imitate what the books teach on witchcraft techniques during their isolated moments and you can imagine the deadly consequences of reading such seemingly harmless piece of literature. Please consider, please. <<YOU: Mortimer Adler explains this well in his book. What he says applies to one and all - to both camps: "There is a sense in which we moderns are inundated with facts to the detriment of understanding. One of the reasons for this situation is that the very media we have mentioned (Chris: TV and radio) are so designed as to make thinking seem unnecessary (though this is only an appearance). The packaging of intellectual positions and views is one of the most active enterprises of some of the best minds of our day. The viewer of television, the listener to radio, the reader of magazines (Chris: and if I may add, the reader of reviews :-)), is presented with a whole complex of elements - all the way from ingenious rhetoric to carefully selected data and statistics - to make it easy for him "to make up his own mind" with the minimum of difficulty and effort. But the packaging is often done so effectively that the viewer, listener, or reader does not make up his own mind at all. Instead, he inserts a packaged opinion into his mind, somewhat like inserting a cassette into a cassette player. He then pushes a button and "plays back" the opinion whenever it seems appropriate to do so. He has performed acceptably without having had to think" (Mortimer J Adler and Charles van Doren, How to Read a Book, NY:Simon and Schuster, Inc., 1972, p 4) What you have done is to take the opinion of the reviewer (be it 12 Reasons or whatever else), plug it into your mind and replay it whenever the subject is brought up. Or perhaps rather, what has happened to you is that you have fallen victim to media propaganda. (Sure, it can happen to me too) This is no good. This is not learning. Learning must begin with you yourself tackling the material yourself. And this is what we must teach our children - to learn to discern, and not stick their heads into the sand and hope that all is well or that it will go away. No, even if they don't need to face it at home, they will face in school, at the playground, at the childcare, in the library, etc. You cannot protect them forever and you should not aim for that. >>> MA is not talking about HP books. He is talking about "How to read a book." I think he is talking about those books worth thinking about. <<<YOU: ME: "Once you have determined the worthiness or unworthiness" - how does this happen? For you, it seems to me that you are content in accepting a secondary source of information. You are not at all concerned that you have just been given a packaged opinion which you simply replay over and over again here. What I am suggesting is simply this - read the book yourself, make notes on the pages, write your rebuttals with BCV next to passages, write warnings by the side, raise red flags, THEN pass the book to your child. Ask him to read the text AND your comments, then DISCUSS with him what he thinks. If you feel this is not a good way to go, you are entitled to your opinion. But if we feel, and this is the view of liberal education - the kind that a learning school and thinking nation is seeking after - that arming them with critical thinking skills is the way to go, we should be able to agree to disagree amicably. >>> If it is a credible source, why not? If you really insist on doing it for your children, it's OK with me. Please take note of my comments re exposing children to HP books. The reason why you are not alarmed and fail to see the red alert flashing is your thinking that HP books are like fairy tales and adventure books. I think you will have no problem if HP books are called Manuals on witchcraft practice, you may applaud the action of those who brought their books together and burned them according to Acts 19:19. They should have kept them and passed them around for second or even third opinion before burning them. What do you say? <<<YOU: I suppose I can now conclude that secondhand information is good enough for you. But is it that bad and evil for those who prefer firsthand information to read it for themselves to find out what the hoo-ha is? Are they committing a great sin because they wish to understand what is so evil about Harry Potter firsthand, rather than second? Why must we understand firsthand? Because we want to be credible, we want to learn to wrestle with the text ourselves, we want to learn also the PROCESS of learning, not just the result. We don't want packaged opinion that we simply replay, we want to "test all things". Is it so bad? >>> Refer to my reply above. If you are so "hardcore", so be it. Please re-consider. The Bible says "to put away from yourselves the evil person." Do you know what it means by putting away? <<<YOU: ME: Do you really think this is what the verse means? Absolute abstinence? You are interpreting this the same way you did with Phil 4:8. In that case, I'll still ask you the same question which you did not answer - how are we to justify going to school at all in view of Phil 4:8 and now, 1 Thess 5:22? Again, I ask you to consider the impracticality and contradiction of absolute abstinence. I talked about that community, remember? How can the community KNOW that something is evil unless at least one member of that community has TOUCHED, READ, ANALYSED that offensive material? Then what do you do with such an individual - does he have to purify himself for seven days? Even then, can he forget what he has understood? Furthermore, who will this individual be in order that the entire community can believe him. He has got to be like Moses, shouldn't he? How practical is such a community? >>> Not only abstain but burn those evil books that are abominable to God. What are your views of your pastor, an ordained Minister? Can he be counted for his views in your church and in your community? If his views are not accepted by your church, how can the community accept his views? The former witch, now an ordained Minister who commented on HP books to be manuals on witchcraft, is credible because of his previous involvement with witchcraft. Who can be more credible than him? If you are not a drug addict previously, I wonder how qualified and credible are you to share your experience in drug addiction? Who is more qualified than the drug addict himself? <<<YOU: ME: All the more you should teach them to rebut whatever it is you find offensive! Warn them of media propaganda! Point out to them why the media blitz has misrepresented certain facts, why they have appealed fallaciously to authority, or to modesty, where they have massaged statistics, etc. Don't just place "fire" in their lives, give them the EXTINGUISHER also! Teach them to fish, they can have fish all their lives! >>> It will not help. It's too late. They need the power of God to deliver. <<<YOU: ME: Please do not introduce more strawman. By understanding what the other side is saying is not seeking men's approval. It's proper dialogue. The problem with communication, especially cross-cultural evangelism, is that many don't listen actively. They pause not in order to hear what the other person is really saying, they pause to construct in their minds their next argument. To be credible, you have to know in what way is the other side wrong, and to be able to back it up with good analysis and explanation. You can make use of what others have found out (I am not against this, we all need handbooks, commentaries, etc) but it must be only because they put it in a way better than you can, not because you didn't read the materials from the other side yourself. This is learning and what we should be teaching our children.>>> There maybe more comments. So far, two postings that are unfavourable. These are credible comments worth taking note. Aren't we having dialogue and really "hardcore" lor.
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Messages
Outline:
Yes, it's a shame. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Dec 15
Really sad by Ivan, 2001, Dec 15
Before your rest ... by Christopher Yip, 2001, Dec 20
It is really screwed up........ by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 24
Yes! This is going to happen hopefully. Daniel Eaton has to eat back his words like promoting witches are good and ... by Ivan, 2001, Dec 24
To JD n Ivan by Christopher Yip, 2001, Dec 26
Reply by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 26
On Star Trek and Magic by RTC, 2001, Dec 26
Okay by Christopher Yip, 2001, Dec 26
getting more liberal... by Little Man of God, 2001, Dec 26 
"Spellbound" by Ivan, 2001, Dec 26
Too bad. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Dec 26
Don't just say too bad; it is time to pray! eom. by Ivan, 2001, Dec 26
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