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To JD n Ivan 
Could someone shed some light on... (simpleman)
It is all in the mind. (Interested )
Wrong! (prophet)
If you are scared of something then you should do something about it. Fear is a bondage. n/t. (Interested )
Truth (prophet)
Sorry, don't agree with you. (Interested )
A word of caution -Fro Interrested (John Doe 666)
Fear of the Devil (from the Net). (Interested )
maybe word use is NOT FEAR EVIL BUT TO SHUN & AVOID EVIL (Little Man of God)
Well, the Lord by His Spirit is speaking to us to have no fellowship with the demons promoted thru' whatever form.eom. (Ivan)
Most amusing thread (Eveline How)
Thread 648-3 (Joe)
"H Potter" is fit for the potty, no matter how many accolades and box office records set (Ivan)
Untitled
On the contrary..... (John Doe 666)
Please (Eveline How)
Casting down every imagination (Ivan)
So (Eveline How)
It's all about choices, knowing the difference and doing what's right (Ivan)
If (Eveline How)
Of (Ivan)
Untitled (Eveline How)
To Ivan/Eveline (John Doe 666)
Adults and Children are different (Christopher Yip)
A new category: RA(BAD) (Ivan)
Which category of reader are you? (Christopher Yip)
Almost persuaded (Ivan)
Read and meditate (Ivan)
Sad indeed. (Christopher Yip)
Getting bad (Ivan)
Yes, it's a shame. (Christopher Yip)
Really sad (Ivan)
Before your rest ... (Christopher Yip)
It is really screwed up........ (John Doe 666)
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Hello guys,
JD: The issue as I still see is that if the kids never read HP, they will not know about crystal balls, spells..etc until they grow a bit bigger. But now, with HP they are exposed to it. In the same manner, kids do not know what homosexual people do in thier rooms, but I guess it is OK for them to know them, right ? from your argumanents ?? please...... ME: Are you against telling children about witchcraft and homosexual acts just because they are young? So it is in fact alright that kids read about such things? If so, what would be that age in your opinion that is suitable for them to start knowing these things exist? Also, in case you miss this, Daniel Eaton said, "While there may be some things in the HP books that can be seen as occult, unless you are versed in the occult and looking for it, you would never know it was there." Think about this. Children reading Harry Potter may not know all of those things you fear. He goes on to give an example: "For example, it was perfectly OK for Alice to go “through” the looking glass. Everyone knew that was pretend. But someone versed with the occult (not the intended audience for the books, by the way), would say that Harry Potter going “into” a mirror is similar to the occult practice of scrying. Kids, the sole intended audience of these books, are not going to know or pick up on this minor distinction." Is this bad enough for you to stop your children from reading Carroll's books? You would have to in order to maintain consistency. Let me bring this even further. Eaton quotes Allan Jacobs, "Jacobs notes that contemporary Christian unease with magic is somewhat recent: 'In sixteenth-century Europe you would find Christians who were deeply involved in astrology largely because they were Calvinists. And it was understood at the time that there was a close connection between a predestinarian theology and astrology because astrology confirms or supports a predestinarian theology by suggesting that the outcome and direction of our lives is fixed before our births…. Other Christians at the same time who dismissed astrology as being a bunch of hogwash but who were very much engaged with magic…. Magic was not thought to be any more at odds with Christianity than experimental science. The big question then is to what use do you put magic? Now we see magic as an intrinsically dangerous thing. Our focus now is on experimental science and technology, and we tend to have the same kinds of debates about technology now that Christians had about magic several centuries ago. Star Trek technology, as imagined as Potter's magic, is treated differently by Christians, even though the two have similar ends: "If we imagine somebody stepping on to a little circle and then suddenly dissolving, and then reappearing instantly somewhere else, and we call this a transporter, and we're told that it is a device that is created by technology, then we go 'oh, that's cool.' But if we imagine someone waving a wand or stepping into a fireplace, disappearing, and reappearing somewhere else, we're much less comfortable.'" Are you comfortable explaining how somebody can step into a little circle and suddenly disappear and reappear somewhere else as in Star Trek? If not, do you forbid your children from watching all such sci-fi? Again, it would have to be a yes to be consistent. I hope this makes you think a little differently. Ivan: I think a spell has already been cast on him for him to say that witchcraft is good. He needs God's power to deliver him from this spell. He can be delivered provided he repents and withdraws his statements. May the Lord have mercy on us, ME: Have mercy on me, Ivan. I might also be demon possessed! ;-)) I read a couple of your posts and I thought you were more rational than this. I think it is unfair, unnecessary and quite unchristian to call another Christian demon possessed just because he disagrees with you. I mean there are times that we should diagnose some people as such but is this one of them? You seem to have become embittered, resentful and deeply entrenched in your view. I don't think you are able to look at the issue objectively anymore. It's a shame that you have to resort to one of the oldest fallacies - ad hominem. To back up what I said, allow me to put up some facts for you perusal. Contrary to your assertion, Daniel Eaton does not say at all in his article that witchcraft is good. I have read it at least 3 times but I must admit it is long and I could have missed it. If so, I would appreciate your pointing it out to me. 1) Daniel Eaton is not a supporter of Harry Potter: "I am writing this partially in response to what I consider an over-reaction to the Harry Potter books that I saw in my own church. I do not consider myself a supporter or proponent of the Harry Potter novels, but do feel that it is only right to defend them against mischaracterizations by well-meaning people. In the context of a sermon on end-times and the Book of Revelation, the pastor showed a short video clip showing a volcano, a flood, and the huge response to the latest installment of the Harry Potter books. He went on to refer to the “satanic battles” that took place in the books and told the congregation that the kids waiting to purchase the books at one bookstore were “given a mark on their forehead”. This unspecified but obvious inference to the “mark of the beast” in Revelation and to “satanic battles”, from a person who admittedly had not even read the books, shows the extent at which Potter paranoia has reached." 2) Daniel Eaton does not say witchcraft is good. "The Bible clearly condemns witchcraft and tells Christians to "avoid every kind of evil" (1 Thess. 5:22)." "I agree that God condemns the occult. But I have yet to see that the Harry Potter novels use any connection to the supernatural realm for some occultic power. The case just has not been made. But even if the connection can be shown, the only thing Harry Potter “glories” in is Quidditch, an extra-curricular sporting event. The school lessons are just background for a mediocre juvenile adventure story." 3) Daniel Eaton warns of the real danger of stereotyping. "While the magic used in the imaginary world is mechanical (making a broom fly or a torch light), there is no resemblance with the “magic” of the occult of trying to control one’s future or contacting the dead. While Christians are trying to protect their kids from the appearance of “witchcraft” in keeping them away from the Harry Potter books, they are in fact reinforcing a dangerous stereotype that will in effect leave their children unprepared when they come across the real thing. As C. S. Lewis points out in The Screwtape Letters, whether we believe that the Devil does not exist or whether we believe that he is running around with a pitchfork and horns both are to his advantage. The same it true for Wicca and witchcraft. Whether kids read the Harry Potter books or just hear about them from their friends, if we as parents suggest that they promote witchcraft, we leave our children unprepared to recognize the real thing when they are exposed to it. That nice, respectful, environmentally conscious friend that they make in Junior High will look nothing like Harry Potter." By equating the mechanical magic of Harry Potter with witchcraft, children will not be able to detect the real subtleties of witchcraft even when they have been drawn into it! In the end, I am concerned that some people have become "lazy" as Eaton puts it. We just don't bother to investigate anymore and rely on what strikes us first as sane and sensible. We often forget the teaching of Proverbs 18:17, "The first to state his case seems right, until his opponent comes and cross-examines him." (NET) All these 3-in-1 and instant noodles have made us trigger-happy people. I believe what your opponents are simply asking you to do is this - weigh both sides and you can start this by reading the book or watching the movie. I leave you with Eaton's words: 'Let me start by staying that Christians, as a whole, are lazy. If that got your attention, it was intended to. We, as Christians, generally take the easy way out. We would rather drop a dollar (hopefully not one of those yellow ones) in the offering plate to support missions than to be a witness ourselves. We rely on what the pastor tells us the Bible means instead of studying it ourselves. We also rely on stereotypes instead of taking the time to understand specifics. That is what is going on with the world of Harry Potter. Harry Potter is a wizard-in-training that does magic. The Bible speaks against witchcraft, so Harry Potter must be evil. The problem with this statement is that there is no real similarity between Harry Potter and “witchcraft”. This is a false analogy. It commits the logical fallacy of equivocation. It ignores the fact that the same word can have more than one definition. I dare say that 99% of all Christians wouldn’t recognize a witch if they saw one, and couldn’t tell you what a witch believes. While there are modern day witches (they prefer the term Wiccans and practice the religion of Wicca), there is virtually no similarity between their beliefs and actions and anything found in the Harry Potter books." Have mercy on me! Christopher
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Messages
Outline:
Reply by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 26
On Star Trek and Magic by RTC, 2001, Dec 26
Okay by Christopher Yip, 2001, Dec 26
getting more liberal... by Little Man of God, 2001, Dec 26 
"Spellbound" by Ivan, 2001, Dec 26
Too bad. by Christopher Yip, 2001, Dec 26
Don't just say too bad; it is time to pray! eom. by Ivan, 2001, Dec 26
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