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Define this first 
church in Jurong West vicinity 
City Harvest (Liz R.)
Sorry, City Harvest is not Traditional Church, Lolz...eom (Emmanuel)
The true City (Ivan)
Impressive (RTC)
What great feats of men to turn the wasteland into a holy masterpiece sanctuary of God! (Ivan)
Reasons??? (RTC)
I believe every building of a new church is a testimony of the members' faith in a great God (Ivan)
I can see that, but can you see this? (RTC)
In times like these (Ivan)
If so... (John Doe 666)
Who is missing: "ch_rch" (Ivan)
Did you miss it? (John Doe 666)
Yah, I understand but can we have both and all done to glorify God. eom. (Ivan)
Not possible if the glory has already been given to the magnificant building....eom (John Doe 666)
We don't give glory to a building; we give glory to God by building the new CHC.eom. (Ivan)
Out of Sync (RTC)
Out of Step (Ivan)
Yep, resistant to change (RTC)
Various "types" of churches (Ivan)
Types of churches (RTC)
Going by your humanistic definitions, how do you define "a church without walls"? Is it institutional or organic? (Ivan)
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It goes beyond humanistic definitions re types of churches. ++What do you mean by insinuating that I am using humanistic definitions? Can you explain that? Even your definitions fall short of expressing the vibrancy and inspiration of such church in the 21st century. ++Like what? In what way does 1 Cor 14:26 fail to express what God intends? Sure, church life is better experienced than talked about, but if we are not talking the language of the Scriptures, I don't see how our experience will be anywhere near what they are talking about. May I call it a heaven-on-earth church. Have you been to such a church? This kind of church is one of a kind. It is out of this world. In short, it is heavenly! When you enter into the holy presence of God, you will be lost in worship; you will forget about yourself and magnify the Lord Jesus and worship Him. Lives are impacted and so yielded to live for Jesus! ++You are probably alluding to a fantastic mega-church Sunday service, with all the pomp and the glamour and the excitement. Many associate such a service (especially if it is seamless in its transitions) as a glorious service. Remove the hype of the glitter and sound and one is left to wonder what's underneath. No, I'm talking about experiencing a meeting where it is all about Jesus, and none of man. I'm talking about a meeting where Jesus Christ is expressed in that meeting, in the simplicity of believers coming together, without pomp and glamour, believers laughing together, crying together, struggling together, eating together, admonishing one another, encouraging one another etc. Such meetings leave an impact on believers that no worship service can. This kind of church will turn heads to Jesus. It is nothing organic; it is supernatural and spiritual in every aspect of the church life. If your house church is simply organic, it will not produce the spiritual and the supernatural sparks that will turn the world upside down just like in Acts times. ++I don't see why you would think that I am emphasizing organic at the expense of the spiritual. If you would bother to read my previous postings (rather than try to take pot shots) you would have read that I believe the church is a spiritual creation, born from above, requiring spiritual principles that many times are not the ways of the world. If you want to turn the world upside down, you will need the radical ways of the NT church. Don't think institutional; don't think organic; get spiritual and supernatural by the power of the Holy Spirit to move into breakthroughs with God and not break-evens in the church life. ++Can we have the wine and ignore the wineskin? I submit to you that today, and for the past 1,700 years, the church has been using the old wineskin to contain the wine. We have gone back to the ways of the temples and priests, the organisation and the hierarchy. Whatever breakthrough the Holy Spirit has done through the years have ended up being short-circuited by man's ways of trying to contain the wine in his own ways, adopting the ways of the world. Then later on we cry for revival and a fresh outpouring. You should start thinking about the wine and the wineskin, they go together. It is time now to change our mindsets by the unchanging Changer or experience "hang-ups" or be "hanged"(computer jargon) in our Christian lives. ++I see this as simply another high sounding call to ignore what is being discussed and just pursue the Spirit, as if it will all work out automatically. Well, certainly the history of the church does not attest to this. Our minds must be renewed by the Word of God, who has inspired men to write them down for our instruction. |
to:
Messages
Outline:
RTC: Rest The Case. by Ivan, 2002, Jan 07
Not so fast by RTC, 2002, Jan 07
THE BIG QUESTION by Ivan, 2002, Jan 07
The BIG answer by RTC, 2002, Jan 08
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