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The BIG answer 
church in Jurong West vicinity 
City Harvest (Liz R.)
Sorry, City Harvest is not Traditional Church, Lolz...eom (Emmanuel)
The true City (Ivan)
Impressive (RTC)
What great feats of men to turn the wasteland into a holy masterpiece sanctuary of God! (Ivan)
Reasons??? (RTC)
I believe every building of a new church is a testimony of the members' faith in a great God (Ivan)
I can see that, but can you see this? (RTC)
In times like these (Ivan)
If so... (John Doe 666)
Who is missing: "ch_rch" (Ivan)
Did you miss it? (John Doe 666)
Yah, I understand but can we have both and all done to glorify God. eom. (Ivan)
Not possible if the glory has already been given to the magnificant building....eom (John Doe 666)
We don't give glory to a building; we give glory to God by building the new CHC.eom. (Ivan)
Out of Sync (RTC)
Out of Step (Ivan)
Yep, resistant to change (RTC)
Various "types" of churches (Ivan)
Types of churches (RTC)
Going by your humanistic definitions, how do you define "a church without walls"? Is it institutional or organic? (Ivan)
Define this first (RTC)
RTC: Rest The Case. (Ivan)
Not so fast (RTC)
THE BIG QUESTION (Ivan)
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THE BIG QUESTION: The question is, does it happen in the cell group? And what is the basis for discounting it in the Sunday service in the first place? My friend, I think I have found the key to the above big question that will unlock your understanding and bring you to an "alerted state of consciousness" in your experience of the "body life" whether in churches or house groups. If you understand what is the import of 1 Cor 14:26, you will agree that this is what is done in churches and house groups though not all encourage every activity specified here in any of these settings. ++In that case I would like to see how you look at that verse. Being written in such plain language, I don’t think 1 Cor 14:26 eludes my understanding but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Please note that "each of you who has a psalm, has a revelation, etc" points to a person doing any of such activity in a specified church gathering. ++It is useful to read what 1 Cor 14:26 to see if your explanation fits. "Well, my brothers, let's add up what I am saying. When you meet together some will sing, another will teach, or tell some special information God has given him, or speak in an unknown language, or tell what someone else is saying who is speaking in the unknown language, but everything that is done must be useful to all, and build them up in the Lord." (1 Cor 14:26, The Living Bible) I believe this verse is so clear that what should happen in church meetings is the freedom of expression with the view to edification. What it points to is not that a person is doing any of the above activity, but that the entire assembly of saints gathered are actively engaged in these activities. Neither is it a specified church gathering, the word “whenever” seems to refer to the common, regular meetings of the believers in each others’ homes. The emphasis is on orderliness and edification of all church members so gathered whether such activities are predetermined or not. ++In verse 26 Paul is saying what should take place in the meetings. Then in the next few verses he briefly describes how it ought to take place. The orderliness is not an order of service as per the Sunday service. Paul did not have this in mind when he wrote this, and neither should we make Paul say what he did not say. Paul was simply saying that believers should take turns to express themselves, and that the content of their words should be for the edification of the Body. Believers may have already decided or predetermined what they want to share prior to the meeting, but that is not to say that someone has centrally planned who to say what and when. This would be like what some churches do, those who share their testimonies must get “approval” from the pastor and have their words vetted. But in a house group or house church, for eg you can have more persons involved in leading in a psalm and encouraging those who know to follow along. To have order, then in such a case, it has to be done one at a time still. And you can allow for spontaneity too. ++Are you relating a “this can happen” scenario or are you describing what actually happens in normal cell group meetings? The fact is that, given the limited number of people and the more informal setting, the cell meeting is still leader-directed, much like the Sunday service. If 1 Cor 14:26 is argued as taking place, it is at best a watered-down version. It is OK to organise but not to exclude the Spirit-led activities (spontaneity) bearing in mind that achievements of orderliness and edification are of paramount importance. ++I guess your idea of Spirit-led activity is that brief amount of time slotted in for “ministry” time, perhaps squeezed between the Praise & Worship and the Bible study. This becomes a situation where more than 90% is organised and planned and the remaining is a sort of concession given as a token expression of 1 Cor 14:26. I submit that this is not what took place in the early house church meetings. Finally, I can rest my case. ++You hardly made a case in the first place! But given the impending "doom" of this forum, perhaps I can never get you to do that anymore. In any case, I want to thank you for persevering with me these many days in our discussion. |
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