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church in Jurong West vicinity
City Harvest (Liz R.)
Sorry, City Harvest is not Traditional Church, Lolz...eom (Emmanuel)
The true City (Ivan)
Impressive (RTC)
What great feats of men to turn the wasteland into a holy masterpiece sanctuary of God! (Ivan)
Reasons??? (RTC)
I believe every building of a new church is a testimony of the members' faith in a great God (Ivan)
I can see that, but can you see this? (RTC)
In times like these (Ivan)
Living in the Old? (RTC)
The Old and the New (Ivan)
Question to Ivan (John Doe 666)
You can read Eph 5:23-27 for yourself. eom. (Ivan)
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Eph
5:26that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word, 5:27that he might present the church to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
JD: This is already done. V 26 says: "having cleansed it". This is past tense. Jesus came to cleanse His elect(church), and He did that. The word "might present" is the result of having been clensed. Those who are saved has no wrinkle or spot because here it is talking about the sins of the 'church elect'. This is still true for the remnant. I don't think this is refering also the restoration of the 5 fold ministry since there is no reference to it. Another interesting point to note is that at the same time the author is talking about husbands and wives. If you want to use the same analogy, we should apply it also to that relationship, but if we do that to husband and wife, we cannot possibly make any sense, since husbands cannot make wives to be clean and spotless completely, only to a certain extent. In any case I think this is quite a long discussion ( if the 5 fold ministry will be revived, revival..etc )and many issues are intervined. I am not sure if I have the time to through the discussion, though I very much like to. So finaaly I am not so convinced that this reference is predicting a perfect-church before Christ returns...... Thanks for the reference anyway. -JD
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Messages
Outline:
Look again by Ivan, 2001, Dec 28 
You are Wrong here..... by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 31
Looking up... by Ivan, 2001, Dec 31
How sad.... by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 31
Be of good cheer, Brother John by Ivan, 2001, Dec 31
You're right...else who is Jesus coming back for? EOM by saved-by-grace, 2001, Dec 31 
thanks for agreeing... by John Doe 666, 2002, Jan 02
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