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What about my questions? 
church in Jurong West vicinity 
City Harvest (Liz R.)
Sorry, City Harvest is not Traditional Church, Lolz...eom (Emmanuel)
The true City (Ivan)
Impressive (RTC)
What great feats of men to turn the wasteland into a holy masterpiece sanctuary of God! (Ivan)
Reasons??? (RTC)
I believe every building of a new church is a testimony of the members' faith in a great God (Ivan)
I can see that, but can you see this? (RTC)
In times like these (Ivan)
Living in the Old? (RTC)
The Old and the New (Ivan)
reply (RTC)
I am... (Ivan)
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I am not going to follow the letter of rebuttals in the usual format going through them line by line. ++So does that mean my questions go unanswered? What I seek to do now is to highlight the key areas we agree and work on the key areas of disagreement to come to a desired end. ++OK As you did not rebut my point on the existence of church buildings from 4th century AD, I presume that you agree that there are church buidings whether constructed from scratch or converted from existing premises by changing the nature of its use like in our times the change of use from cinemas to church buildings. ++Yes, I agree that church buildings were in vogue in the 4th century onwards. But do you know why? And as you also did not rebut my point about there being house churches in the first three centuries, I take it that you agree that the early churches were house churches? You have also agreed not to follow the letter in OT and NT but follow the spiritual principles or Scriptural commands or godly examples of men of God like Apostle Paul as he trained up and set up local Pastors while he planted churches in his missionary journeys. This is what is precisely happening at the new CHC with its School of Theology with all these things in mind. ++You have misrepresented me. You charged me earlier with not following Paul's method of preaching in the marketplace in order to follow the Acts pattern. I said that you need to understand the context in which Paul was acting. You missed that part. And if you want to know Paul's missionary methods, digest this fact: Paul planted churches, were with most of them for a few months, and left! Only much later did elders appeared and Paul or another worker gave them public recognition. Elders were raised up after many years from the soil and toil of church life, not through seminary. They were first brothers before they were elders. Sad to say, things are not like that today. One goes to seminary, study three years, and then get posted out as a pastor. And you said that the church is not precluded from using buildings for occasional large meetings. I can see that the situation happened then in Acts times is what is happening here in our times. I can envisage that with time the early Christians realised that it is better to fix the building for the large assembly of Christians (Heb 10:24,25) which they can construct from scratch or converting the use of such buildings for Christian worship from 4th century AD. Or they have to continually face with the recurring costs of rentals of premises or have to inconveniently depend on the goodwill of the members to use their large premises and even have to subject the members to change of locations at last minute notices. ++It is dangerous to imagine current day practices and read them back into the Bible. FYI, the early church did not have the fixation of mega churches today to put everybody under one roof. The apostles taught from house to house. My friend, this is the state of the churches nowadays; some are meeting at hotels, some at Christian organisations premises, some at factory premises and some at cinemas. And with modernisation, buildings including church buildings have improved which we cannot deny. ++That's true, simply because that's the way things should be for many churches. They cannot think church apart from a place to meet or church buildings. Many churches struggle to find a place to meet, incur expenses that many have trouble meeting, simply because "that's the way things are" and they have to go along with it. Even those that started from homes end up trying to secure a piece of land where they can label it "church". They cajole members to give and give, to raise funds, hold dinners, all for the sake of the beloved church building, an edifice that God is not even concerned with! When we become Christians, we have not lost our brains, we need all the more, God's wisdom to help us to think and to apply the spiritual principles set out in the NT and to practice the dynamics of church life in a corporate context as well as small group dynamics to bring the church to a higher and deeper levels in God. And the church building should serve the needs of the people, say 13,000. ++How does a church building serve needs? What spiritual needs require a church building, and a $43m one at that, with a rotating cross and titanium clad structure? I can see you are struggling with giving me a good reason for these things. Yes, the Church of Jesus Christ moves from glory to glory and shines brighter and brighter while the world gets darker and darker at the end times. ++Well, in light that the Bible talks about an end time falling away, I'm not too sure about that. |
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Messages
Outline:
I try... by Ivan, 2001, Dec 29
Place of worship???? by RTC, 2001, Dec 30
I think... by Ivan, 2001, Dec 30
It is heartening.... by Ivan, 2001, Dec 31
Best of both worlds?? by RTC, 2001, Dec 31
RTC: Return To Christ by Ivan, 2002, Jan 01
Already have by RTC, 2002, Jan 02
On "house of God" by Ivan, 2002, Jan 03
No house of God by RTC, 2002, Jan 03
Of course happier up there by RTC, 2001, Dec 31
RTC by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 31
Church in my home by RTC, 2002, Jan 02
May I.... by John Doe 666, 2002, Jan 02
Here's some info by RTC, 2002, Jan 02
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