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Place of worship???? 
church in Jurong West vicinity 
City Harvest (Liz R.)
Sorry, City Harvest is not Traditional Church, Lolz...eom (Emmanuel)
The true City (Ivan)
Impressive (RTC)
What great feats of men to turn the wasteland into a holy masterpiece sanctuary of God! (Ivan)
Reasons??? (RTC)
I believe every building of a new church is a testimony of the members' faith in a great God (Ivan)
I can see that, but can you see this? (RTC)
In times like these (Ivan)
Living in the Old? (RTC)
The Old and the New (Ivan)
reply (RTC)
I am... (Ivan)
What about my questions? (RTC)
I try... (Ivan)
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You are dead against church buildings as places of worship. ++Because there's no such things as places of worship under the NT! It is simply unbiblical to say "this is a place of worship" when we are under the new covenant. It flies in the face of Scripture to get everyone to give so much to something for which the NT gives no sanction to. You insist on following to the letter in matters of church appointments and home churches. ++Again the loaded term "following to the letter", probably used to try and paint me in a legalistic picture. Why do you do that when I have already explained myself? I must say that you got yourself stuck to the times before 4th century AD. ++Can you explain what you mean above? Are you able to articulate what I believe about church life concerning the first century? And I tried to help you to see the progression that was taking place in church history and development; they moved from home churches to church buildings though the Apostles taught from house to house during the times before the 4th century AD which was recorded. ++It is always very tempting to see such changes on a superficial level and say it is good.But are you aware of the reasons for the changes, the effects of the changes on church life? Do you know what was lost when the church traded her organic nature for an organisation mold? Do you know what was lost when the church gave up houshold relationships for hierarchical relationships? As in the past, the church today wants to uncritically use the things of the world to achieve certain ends, without thinking them through with Scriptures. Things become justifiable simply on pragmatic grounds disguised under "world evangelism". As mentioned, they did occasionally met in large meetings, I postulated that they might have assembled in church buildings at a corporate level; they also met in homes in small groups from the 4th century AD. ++You are wrong. House churches were forbidden after the 4th century because the state-church would not tolerate believers not meeting under their auspices. Those who did so in defiance of the law were conveniently named heretics and persecuted. You can read about this in the "Pilgrim Church". There are many churches not having deacons, elders but only Senior Pastor, Asst Pastors. Do we recognise them as churches? Must we follow to the letter in this regard, else they cannot be certified as churches? ++I recognise a church as a body of believers. But I do not recognise the church structure as biblical. As far as Scriptures are concerned, it goes against Jesus' words when the church structure is seen as a pyramid. Secondly, pastors were never used as titles, but seen as functions. The language of diakonos was never official, but functional. Thirdly, why do away with elders and deacons and institute our own brand of leadership forms? What right do we have to improve upon God's "pattern" of church life as revealed and practiced as normative during the first three centuries? Like I said before, the church building is only a building and to call it CHC or whatever, there must be Christians in it to receive training and be equipped to be harvesters and to assemble together corporately to worship God and to celebrate the goodness and the greatness of God Almighty. ++It sounds so harmless to say it is only a building mah. But I can tell you this. Today CHC is synonymous with the building located at Jurong West. Loyalty is given to that building. Any attack on it is seen as a direct attack on God Himself. People will fight to defend the building against the "opposition", and yet they say "it's just a building mah!" And like all church buildings are designed to do, meetings are styled in a performer-spectator mode, the only thing the congregation knows to do is to respond to those on the stage. Whatever happens to 1 Cor 14:26? Where is mutual participation? Sadly it is relegated to the cell group meetings (which is very much like a mini-service) where it also hardly takes place. And it is true that church life for many believers consist of that 1 hours of exciting and pulsating experience called the worship service. And done in a church building, it is seen as the epitome of corporate worship. But is this the picture we see in the NT? So, do you still refuse to be down to earth and face reality when you see the sprouting of church buildings all over the world and the establishment of "koinonia" groups in homes? ++Let's face reality. Without the buildings and the programs planned out, do believers know what it means to function when they gather? Do you know what it means to meet under the Headship of Christ and practice 1 Cor 14:26 when, say, 6 of you come together? I can guarantee you this, it will be the most miserable hour of existence in a meeting because no one is comfortable in a meeting where nobody takes charge. I speak from experience, not just mine, but many others as well. I have been in many cell groups for many years and everywhere it is the same. Someone designated "leader" must take charge. People cringe without an "agenda". Spontaneous expression of 1 Cor 14:26 is something unheard of. Prescription: Let's arise and build to lift up the name of Jesus corporately in high tech buildings and in home cells. ++Here's the better prescription: give the church back to the Lord. Let man's methods give way to the cross and to the Holy Spirit. Let's start living by divine life rather than organisational "artificial" life. |
to:
Messages
Outline:
I think... by Ivan, 2001, Dec 30
It is heartening.... by Ivan, 2001, Dec 31
Best of both worlds?? by RTC, 2001, Dec 31
RTC: Return To Christ by Ivan, 2002, Jan 01
Already have by RTC, 2002, Jan 02
On "house of God" by Ivan, 2002, Jan 03
No house of God by RTC, 2002, Jan 03
Of course happier up there by RTC, 2001, Dec 31
RTC by John Doe 666, 2001, Dec 31
Church in my home by RTC, 2002, Jan 02
May I.... by John Doe 666, 2002, Jan 02
Here's some info by RTC, 2002, Jan 02
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