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I am struggling not to be an idolater........ (ex-Catholic)
Hello. I am curious about why you left the Catholic Church (JP)
I based it on Scriptures..dont tell me.... (Gabriel)
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Hi. Some remarks. I have used the NIV for your convenience.
On whose authority do you claim that Catholic Doctrine is not in line with the Word of God?
But let's not get ahead or ourselves, let me discuss each point of your post: First: The Rosary. Is this a valid Christian form of prayer? If it is valid, there can be no objection right? What are the contents of it?: The Our Father (composed by Jesus, in the bible). The Hail Mary, ( an amalgamation of The Angel Gabriel's, Mary's and Elizabeth's words - also in the Bible) These are the two fundamental prayers within the rosary. Any objections? The other three prayers are the Apostles Creed, recited in many Protestant churches, the "Glory be to the Father": which CANNOT be considered 'blasphemous' in any way, beginning: "Glory be to the father, to the Son and the Holy Spirit" and "Oh my Jesus" viz: "Oh my Jesus, save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of your mercy". How is any of this doctrinally incorrect? It is not merely the words of the bible that can be used in prayer, I am sure you are aware of this. With respect to 'repetition' are you perchance referring to St Matthew's Gospel (6:7)?viz: "Use not vain repetitions..."? Note the key word: "vain". When we pray, it is the intent that counts. So, if the intent is good, the fact of repetition is NOT something to avoid. Do you say the "Our Father" like Jesus taught us? With feeling? If so, how often? Is every month permissible? If so, why not every day? If so, why not every hour/minute/second so long as the INTENTION is good? Repetition is no argument to challenge the validity of prayer. Note in revelation: the crowd of angels in God's presence are CONTINUOUSLY singing/praying " Holy, Holy Holy Lord" (Rev 4:8)Isn't this 'repetitious prayer' by your definition? Biblical repetition?In the songs in your church, don't many of the lyrics include the words (merely rephrased) "glory to God" or "Majesty and power to God" or "praise God" or "Our God is good" or some other powerful, faith-filled praise or the like? Isn't this repetition? God is not testing us for the NOVELTY of our words. He is looking at what is in our hearts when we glorify Him.The fact that we have prayers which have 'standardized' words doesn't mean we are 'forbidden' from praying in our own words! They're merely a DIFFERENT form, but equally valid as speaking in tongues, silent meditation, scriptural reflection, spontaneuos prayer or singing. We say the Hail Mary and the Our Father because they are in the Bible. Further more, look at the use of the Rosary: in the Middle Ages, people didn;t have Bibles, and many couldn;t read even if Bibles were available. The Rosary was used to teach scripture, since the Rosary as we know it contains 15 'Mysteries" or Reflections to keep in mind while meditating. What are these Reflections? Major points of Christian Doctrine; including the death of Christ, His Resurrection and Ascension etc. DOCTRINE & GOD'S WORD I agree with you, doctrine must conform with God's Word. But where is God's word to be found? The Bible AND the teaching of Christ's Church. The bible as I am sure you are aware was not assembled in the form we know today for four centuries after Christ's ascension. What happened to Christians at the time? They had no Bibles. Nor did Bibles become accessible until after Gutenberg invented the printing press.The CHURCH taught them,and continues to do so. The Word of God is contained in the Bible, certainly, but also in the teaching of the Catholic Church, with its apostolic succession. Tell me where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the SOLE rule of Faith? No where. All scripture is 'useful' or has its 'uses; (2 Tim 3:17). That's as close as it gets. Surely if the Bible were the SOLE rule of Faith and utterly sufficient,it would explicitly say so? Further, when Paul wrote his letter to Timothy, much of the New Testament Canon had not yet been written! So which scripture was Paul referring too? That which he had been taught as a child: The Torah or our Pentateuch. Are you saying that the Old Testament is completely sufficient for our Salvation? The Jews thought so. Instead, the Bible teaches that NOT every Christian teaching is in the bible (some examples): John 21:25 and how about St Paul: much Christian teaching was found in words, and not written down,(2 Tim 2:2); St Paul again: "So then brothers stand firm and hold on to the teachings we have passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter"(2 Thess 2:15). Certainly, Scripture is profitable, useful, beneficial to faith, but is it the Sole rule of faith? No - it's not Biblical! The Catholic Church has the authority to teach. Mere scripture alone without more, may in fact prove problematic: one example:(2 Peter 3:16. Also: When St Philip saw the Ethiopian on the road, reading scripture he asked if he understood what he was reading, and the Ethiopian said "No, how can I without someone to guide me" (Acts 8:30-31) Also, 2 Pet 1:20, "No prophecy in Scripture is the subject of private interpretation". Also: is the word "Trinity" in the Bible? What about "Rapture"? What about "Accepting Jesus Christ as my Personal Saviour"? I am not 'demoting' the Bible in any way, merely drawing your attention to the fact that it should not be used for a purpose for which it was not intended. It is a guide-book which contains much of Christian teaching,but not a consolidated, exhaustive list of all Christian teachings.The Bible itself does not say so. A final word: think about it: Is a mere book sufficient to encapsulate God's mysteries, teachings and hopes for us? Why would God NEED to send his Son to us, to teach us then? If a book, privately interpreted were the sole rule of faith,we would all be Jews. Peace, God bless, and have a Holy Christmas P.s. Will discuss Mary's role / honour at a later date. This post is FAR too long!! :) JP
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